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<blockquote data-quote="ZenFox42" data-source="post: 6151462" data-attributes="member: 6746758">As briefly as possible, according to the RAW :&quot;Noticing&quot; an invisible creature means just being aware that it is somewhere within 30 feet of you.&quot;Pinpointing&quot; an invisible creature means knowing exactly what square it is in.An invisible creature's DC to be noticed while moving at half-speed is 15.An invisible creature's DC to be pinpointed while moving at half-speed is that +20, or 35.We have a difference of opinion in our group as to how Stealth interacts with this.For Stealth by itself, if the other creature makes its Perception check against your DC, you are &quot;pinpointed&quot; - the creature knows exactly what square you're in.It's my opinion that ANYTIME you use Stealth, you are always pinpointed if you fail (that is, if the other creature makes its Perception check).So if you're using Stealth to move at half speed while invisible, the DC is (according to the Stealth rules) 20+[your Stealth roll], but if you fail, you are pinpointed (in my opinion).That makes sense to me because there has to be a tradeoff for using Stealth while invisible, otherwise every invisible creature can just say &quot;I'm moving with Stealth&quot; and get at least +20+d20 to their DC.&nbsp; The tradeoff is, if you fail you are not merely noticed, but pinpointed.Comments?&nbsp; Opinions?&nbsp; What I'm asking here is not for a re-iteration of the RAW, but how to combine the rules with invisibility with the rules for Stealth, which doesn't appear to be explicitly defined anywhere I can find.Thanks!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ZenFox42, post: 6151462, member: 6746758"] As briefly as possible, according to the RAW : "Noticing" an invisible creature means just being aware that it is somewhere within 30 feet of you. "Pinpointing" an invisible creature means knowing exactly what square it is in. An invisible creature's DC to be noticed while moving at half-speed is 15. An invisible creature's DC to be pinpointed while moving at half-speed is that +20, or 35. We have a difference of opinion in our group as to how Stealth interacts with this. For Stealth [B]by itself[/B], if the other creature makes its Perception check against your DC, you are "pinpointed" - the creature knows exactly what square you're in. It's my opinion that ANYTIME you use Stealth, you are always pinpointed if you fail (that is, if the other creature makes its Perception check). So if you're using Stealth to move at half speed while invisible, the DC is (according to the Stealth rules) 20+[your Stealth roll], but if you fail, you are pinpointed (in my opinion). That makes sense to me because there has to be a tradeoff for using Stealth while invisible, otherwise every invisible creature can just say "I'm moving with Stealth" and get [I]at least[/I] +20+d20 to their DC. The tradeoff is, if you fail you are not merely noticed, but pinpointed. Comments? Opinions? What I'm asking here is not for a re-iteration of the RAW, but how to combine the rules with invisibility with the rules for Stealth, which doesn't appear to be explicitly defined anywhere I can find. Thanks! [/QUOTE]

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