Invisibility and Stealth - what do the rules INTEND???

[ZenFox42]

As briefly as possible, according to the RAW :

"Noticing" an invisible creature means just being aware that it is somewhere within 30 feet of you.

"Pinpointing" an invisible creature means knowing exactly what square it is in.

An invisible creature's DC to be noticed while moving at half-speed is 15.
An invisible creature's DC to be pinpointed while moving at half-speed is that +20, or 35.

We have a difference of opinion in our group as to how Stealth interacts with this.

For Stealth by itself, if the other creature makes its Perception check against your DC, you are "pinpointed" - the creature knows exactly what square you're in.

It's my opinion that ANYTIME you use Stealth, you are always pinpointed if you fail (that is, if the other creature makes its Perception check).

So if you're using Stealth to move at half speed while invisible, the DC is (according to the Stealth rules) 20+[your Stealth roll], but if you fail, you are pinpointed (in my opinion).

That makes sense to me because there has to be a tradeoff for using Stealth while invisible, otherwise every invisible creature can just say "I'm moving with Stealth" and get at least +20+d20 to their DC.
The tradeoff is, if you fail you are not merely noticed, but pinpointed.

Comments? Opinions? What I'm asking here is not for a re-iteration of the RAW, but how to combine the rules with invisibility with the rules for Stealth, which doesn't appear to be explicitly defined anywhere I can find.

Thanks!

 

[MarkB]

You've chosen the All D&D tag, but every edition of D&D uses Stealth differently, so it'll help to know which edition you're asking about.

That said, from context it looks like you're talking about the Stealth rules printed in the 4th Edition PHB. If that's the case, the answer is: Ignore them completely.

The original 4e stealth rules didn't make sense, and were later completely revised. Take a look at the D&D Compendium, the Essentials version of the rules, or the Player's Handbook Updates for the current rules.

 

[ZenFox42]

Apologies, I'm new to forums. We are specifically using Pathfinder. I was looking for a "3.5 and Pathfinder" thread or tag, settled on ANY as I didn't want to narrow the interest in this question too much. Will be more careful in the future.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Paizo being the publisher of Pathfinder, there are all kinds of PF rule gurus on the Paizo forums.

 

[ZenFox42]

Thanks, I'm aware of the Paizo board, I posted this here because I wanted other opinions.

And this might apply to 3.5 as well, as far as I know their rules for Stealth and invisibility aren't that different from Pathfinder's, except for the names of the skills.

I think I've figured out a better way to ask it :

What are the DC's for being noticed and pinpointed if moving at half-speed, using Stealth while invisible?