D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Stealth Rules

[Stalker0]

So stealth felt worthy of its own thread. The latest of the stealth rules seems to be getting slightly better, but there are still some oddities.

• Technically see invisibility now detects all hiding creatures (barring any changes to the spell).
• The rules do suggest that the Study Action is now used to perceive a hiding creature, but doesn't explicitly say this (the section on Hide should really say "keep track of the result, this is the DC for using the study action to find you"
• Do you know when your stealth is broken? I would assume not, as of right now you can make a stealth check if an invisible enemy sees you, but then the condition is immediately broken. That's fine as long as you aren't aware your stealth is broken.
• The effect still doesn't actually specify that invisible means "not detectable". The invisible condition says your immune to effects based on sight, but nothing about sound. So by the book, when I hide....enemies still know where I am at. Hiding gives you bonuses but doesn't actually remove the key aspect of stealth.....that enemies that come into the room don't know your there.
• The situation gets a little strange when there are multiple enemies that don't communicate with each other. Take for example, if I hide where an invisible stalker can see me, my hide is broken for the dinosaurs also in the room....even if the invisible stalker doesn't attack me or communicate with the dinosaurs in any way.

 

[Charlaquin]

Stealth ends “immediately after (…) an enemy finds you,” but nothing specifies that an enemy finds you if they look at you - on the contrary, if you are invisible, looking at you should not result in finding you, since, you know, you’re invisible. Which means by these rules you can duck behind a tree for a few seconds, and then immediately walk out into the open, and unless you attack, cast a spell that requires a verbal component, or make a sound louder than a whisper, a creature still has to take an action and make a successful perception check to have any idea where you are. It’s absolutely absurd.

 

[Oofta]

The new stealth checks are something I'm going to ignore completely. I pretty much hate the entire concept of where they're going. From one person knowing where you are automatically meaning everyone knowing where you are to the static DC 15 check.

There should be a massive difference between hiding from a drunken ogre and Smaug. It makes it significantly more difficult for low level PCs to hide from many standard low level monsters while a rogue of mid-to-high levels will always succeed.

It also doesn't make any sense - you have to have at least 3/4 cover, but then if an enemy can see you you can't hide. Which makes no sense, if they can't see you, don't you have total cover? It also doesn't explain how a monster finds you if you're invisible. Do they have to be actively searching? Can a rogue ever sneak up behind someone otherwise engaged? Does the "invisibility" end if you step out somewhere you can see an enemy, when you're clearly seen, or not until the creatures turn if they spot you?

It's a mess. I understand some people didn't like the old rule (I have no problem with it) but this is FUBAR.

 

[cbwjm]

Has any edition ever had decent stealth rules? Recalling my games, I just have the player roll stealth against the enemies passive perception. The hidden still needs cover to hide and if a single rock is all you have to hide behind, and people saw you move behind it, then they still know where you are, stealth checks won't help you.

 

[Charlaquin]

Stealth ends “immediately after (…) an enemy finds you,” but nothing specifies that an enemy finds you if they look at you - on the contrary, if you are invisible, looking at you should not result in finding you, since, you know, you’re invisible. Which means by these rules you can duck behind a tree for a few seconds, and then immediately walk out into the open, and unless you attack, cast a spell that requires a verbal component, or make a sound louder than a whisper, a creature still has to take an action and make a successful perception check to have any idea where you are. It’s absolutely absurd.

Oh! And I just realized, the effect ending immediately after an enemy finds you also means if one enemy finds you you’re no longer hidden from anyone, which is just also complete nonsense.

 

[Charlaquin]

Has any edition ever had decent stealth rules?

Yeah, the 2014 edition of 5e.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I understand some people didn't like the old rule (I have no problem with it) but this is FUBAR.

If Invisibility was indeed Beyond All Recognition, that'd be an improvement.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Yeah, the 2014 edition of 5e.

I've been in plenty of heated online 'discussions' about those...

But yeah, this 'you are invisible' stuff is absolutely the silliest.

 

[Charlaquin]

I've been in plenty of heated online 'discussions' about those...

I mean, of course you have. The same thing that makes them good rules for use at the table also makes them prime material for internet arguments: they’re very open to interpretation.

 

[Emberashh]

Ive always been fond of rolling against the environment for stealth, with failure triggering perception attempts, and critical failures inducing an immediate position reveal.

The two stage process best mimics how stealth tends to play out in video games. If you don't stealth properly that doesn't always mean you're found out; enemies are usually alerted to something and then they go searching. Your stealth check in this case would basically either have to fail twice, or fail very very very hard.

The question then becomes how to determine where the line is for critically failing. I think its better for it to start close to the DC and move farther out as you gain experience, but as a general rule, 10 or more short of the DC works. (Ie, PF Crits)

Either way, you get room to recover, and a clearly defined opportunity to potentially try abilities or other Skills to get around the failure, rather than trying to beat the DM to adjudicating.