Invisibility...when does it end?

[blindrage]

"you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely."

Umm that part I read I guess....
Doing direct damage to an area or creatures in an affected area....I think that will make the spell end. Throwing an daylight pebble to burst open and not causing any direct damage to anything in affected area hmm Invisibility spell not ending.

Repeat what I said before: I will go by how the spell is written and the ruling from the Pazio EIC.

 

[pawsplay]

But he not attacking them directly is he? Hmm like I said I think I'm going to with how the spell is written and the ruling from the Pazio rules guy(s).

So throwing the pellet is not an attack action? Somehow can throw the pellet as a ___ action and then also make an attack?

 

[Doc Eldritch]

Pawsplay, there is no such thing as an "attack action". There are Standard actions, one of which is to attack. Throwing the pellet would be a standard action. Thus no, you could not also attack, as you only have 1 standard action in a round.

Now, back on topic, this is one of those toughie kinds of questions, and really boils down to how each GM interprets it for his game. Some are going to be more lenient, others harsher.
I would have to go with intent, in this case, coupled with effect. If the character did not know they were drow, and was trying to light up the area? Does not break invisibility. If he knew they were drow, knew it would blind them, and was trying to cheese the "rules" by targeting the ground? It breaks invisibility.

 

[Alzrius]

Pawsplay, there is no such thing as an "attack action".

Emphasis mine here.

Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).

Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

Sunder

You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack. If you do not have the Improved Sunder feat, or a similar ability, attempting to sunder an item provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

If your attack is successful, you deal damage to the item normally. Damage that exceeds the object's Hardness is subtracted from its hit points. If an object has equal to or less than half its total hit points remaining, it gains the broken condition (see Conditions). If the damage you deal would reduce the object to less than 0 hit points, you can choose to destroy it. If you do not choose to destroy it, the object is left with only 1 hit point and the broken condition.

 

[Doc Eldritch]

Action types are still limited to Standard, Full Round, Move, Free, Swift, Immediate, Not an Action, and Restricted actions (see PFRPG pp 181-182).

That said, as I mentioned, attacks are a "subtype" of Standard action. Not an action type on their own. And since throwing a pellet is a Standard action, you still can not do so AND attack.
Pretty irrelevant to the post at hand though, which is about actions breaking invisibility.

 

[billd91]

And since throwing a pellet is a Standard action, you still can not do so AND attack.

But that pellet toss, thrown as a standard action, can be an attack action depending on exactly what you're doing. And that, I think, is partly what we're debating here.

 

[pawsplay]

To hit a particular grid corner with a splash weapon is an attack action (AC 5).

 

[noretoc]

To hit a particular grid corner with a splash weapon is an attack action (AC 5).

So then play it that way. Almost everyone here disagrees, but no one is holding a gun to your head. This has gone from debate to stubborness. Time to put it to rest.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

If summoning a balor into the midst of a group of drow won't break invisibility (the spell specifically says you can summon monsters, remember)... I would say that throwing a light pellet wouldn't either. Later in the spell, it says "causing harm indirectly is not an attack."

I don't understand how this gets around the "foes in area of effect" clause, which seems to me very clear and not dependent upon harm or possibility of harm.

You could of course argue that a daylight pellet isn't a spell, and of course I have to concede that, but IMO that's contrary to the spirit or intent of what breaks invisibility.

 

[pawsplay]

So then play it that way. Almost everyone here disagrees, but no one is holding a gun to your head. This has gone from debate to stubborness. Time to put it to rest.

I'm not being stubborn, I just don't agree with the reasoning presented so far. You, of course, are welcome to "put it to rest."