iRiver H10 or Creative Zen Sleek Photo?
- Thread starter Mycanid
- Start date
John Crichton
First Post
Nope, none at all. I wasn't actually referring to an extended warranty in this case. I usually don't get EWs on things costing less than $250. 300+ is usually when I start to seriously consider buying them depending on cost & length. For example, getting a $50 EW on a $400 Palm Pilot is a no brainer for me. They don't even try to fix them so you get a free upgrade if anything goes wrong.Mycanid said:
Mycanid
First Post
Okay ... I spent last night just fiddling with the interface after charging it and reading the manual that came with it. My only experience with mp3 players prior to this was an iPod Mini (4 gb, silver model), which I was satisfied with but ran out of space real quick. I listen to a lot of books on tape and teaching lectures, etc. as well as music, which chews up LOTS of space fast. So I gave it to my friend's fiance' as she worked out in a gym for a few hours a few days every week. Needless to say she put it to good use real quick.
One nice thing about the iPod line is the gazillion accessories that are made for it from other companies. I bought an extra external battery for the Mini and was getting 28-30 hours of playing time per charge - something that Samsung's YP player line are just recently also touted to do, by the way.
Anyway, overall everything with the H10 seemed okay to me.
The radio works well, and after a while I got used to the interface. I like the ability to record straight off the radio as an option. I remember once two years ago Hearts of SPace ran a summer program dedicated to "Chill Out" music and there was a song on there that I still hum to this day! When I went to look at their playlist I googled the track and could not find it anywhere. Bummer. I could have benefitted from the recording ability then let me tell you!
The sound is AMAZINGLY crystal clear - as good as if not better than the iPod Mini
To record from cassette player to H10 I would need to get the docking stand. About 60$ more, but I have a LOT of tapes that I would love to be able to suck directly into mp3 files.
I don't know that I will use the text reading ability, although I have plenty of .txt files I could put in there. I have a Tungsten E2 that I use for that sort of thing anyway.
The photo viewing aspect, however, I WILL use. I have some nice pictures of my place I took this past April when all the flowers were wild-crazy in bloom and snapped quite a few shots, for example. I would love to be able to carry those around.
I did have a strange thing happen though. I turned off the H10, and when I turned it on again the screen was VERY dark (you could see it with a flashlight shining directly on it) and the sound (I tested via the radio) was not coming through. So after fiddling with the controls I just reset the thing and everything is back to normal. This may be a problem. I will check with the firmware upgrades on H10 as a just in case.
Oh yes - I like the ear buds bundled with it. The Apple ear buds always were falling out of my ears....
Perhaps today I will go through the tests of putting audio and image files on the creature. So far I am satisfied.
To be continued....
One nice thing about the iPod line is the gazillion accessories that are made for it from other companies. I bought an extra external battery for the Mini and was getting 28-30 hours of playing time per charge - something that Samsung's YP player line are just recently also touted to do, by the way.
Anyway, overall everything with the H10 seemed okay to me.
The radio works well, and after a while I got used to the interface. I like the ability to record straight off the radio as an option. I remember once two years ago Hearts of SPace ran a summer program dedicated to "Chill Out" music and there was a song on there that I still hum to this day! When I went to look at their playlist I googled the track and could not find it anywhere. Bummer. I could have benefitted from the recording ability then let me tell you!
The sound is AMAZINGLY crystal clear - as good as if not better than the iPod Mini
To record from cassette player to H10 I would need to get the docking stand. About 60$ more, but I have a LOT of tapes that I would love to be able to suck directly into mp3 files.
I don't know that I will use the text reading ability, although I have plenty of .txt files I could put in there. I have a Tungsten E2 that I use for that sort of thing anyway.
The photo viewing aspect, however, I WILL use. I have some nice pictures of my place I took this past April when all the flowers were wild-crazy in bloom and snapped quite a few shots, for example. I would love to be able to carry those around.
I did have a strange thing happen though. I turned off the H10, and when I turned it on again the screen was VERY dark (you could see it with a flashlight shining directly on it) and the sound (I tested via the radio) was not coming through. So after fiddling with the controls I just reset the thing and everything is back to normal. This may be a problem. I will check with the firmware upgrades on H10 as a just in case.
Oh yes - I like the ear buds bundled with it. The Apple ear buds always were falling out of my ears....
Perhaps today I will go through the tests of putting audio and image files on the creature. So far I am satisfied.
To be continued....
Mycanid
First Post
Okay - here we go. We come to the aspect about the H10 that has most people up in arms. The means by which you get data onto the player and the way the player organizes the data.
Previously, iRiver players were well designed portable hard drives that could play mp3's (and do a lot of other things). The H120 and H140 are still generally regarded to be the best things iRiver ever put out. But the H10 models (5gb, 6gb and 20gb) were a departure from iRiver's pattern. These players are ONLY interfaceable with Windows XP machines, and with Windows Media Player 10 (serving as the "sync software" in a similiar way as iTunes does for the iPod) in particular. The H10 5gb and 6gb model does have a firmware alternative to go to portable hard drive mode (although if you purchase it in America it voids your warranty and the firware is not downloadable from the american iRiver website) but the 20gb model does not have such firmware, and indeed is the only iRiver mp3 player without it!
This is all well and good. The problem is simple. Both Windows Media Player 10 and Windows XP are buggy. Which means that the firmware iRiver has been trying to designing to get to work with it is constantly being upgraded. Part of the big seller on the iPod is its flawless interface with iTunes (something I have experience with). The interface between the H10 and Windows Media Player is a pain in the neck. I can't tell you how many forums and reviews I have come across of people being driven crazy by this.
Now. To make the player work there are a few extra things you just don't come across.
1.) HOOKING THE H10 TO YOUR COMPUTER. As simple as this might sound this has been an issue for many people, and has been a buggaboo for me as well. There are two modes the H10 can be in to receive files.
The first in "MTP" mode, where it is supposed to install itself via PnP in the "Portable Media Devices" section. Well, it works on some computers and not on others. And there have been problems with the H10 suddenly "disappearing" from people's computers. For myself the most surefire method is to connect the H10 to my computer and turn it on before it boots up. Then it always shows up and I can send all sorts of files to it.
The second mode it can work in temporarily is "UMS" mode, which is essentially portable hard drive mode. If you go through the sequence to activate this mode it shows up as an external hard drive with a drive letter.
2.) MUSIC FILES. Your music files have to be as detailed and uniform as possible information wise (album, artist, genre, track number, etc.) and to have a playlist file (.mpl or .m3u associated with of all the files) This latter fact is very important.
In "MTP" mode there are two ways to send files to the H10. One is drag and drop ... although if you do this you will have to put your playlists in the appropriate (seperate) folder as well and then use a delightful freebie program to organize the data on the H10 as Windows Media Player 10 would. The program is called EasyH10, and, for those curious, here is their website:
http://easyh10.sourceforge.net/index.html The nice thing about this little program is that you can run it on any version of Windows, on Mac OS and on Linux, thereby allowing you to use the H10 if you have those platforms as well.
The other way to send files in "MTP" mode is simply through Windows Media Player 10. Needless to say this program has not been as easy for me to pick up as iTunes was, nor is it as WYSIWYG in the H10, but I am learning how to make it more "foolproof" ... the great detail in the files themselves seems to be the big key.
But, if you go through the sequence to activate "UMS" mode, you can simply send things to the H10 by the drag and drop method. However, again, you will need the EasyH10 program to organize the data on the H10 for you. I have found, however, that transferring large groups of files in this mode often causes my player to freeze for some reason....
3.) CONCLUSIONS. Whereas I am quite willing to go through the steps to make things like this work, I know many others who are not. It should not be this hard, the iTunes/iPod interface shows that it is possible on the windows platform to do music transfers a whole lot easier.
Perhaps the problem is simply that WMP 10 was not originally designed to transfer data to an external MP3 player. WMP 11 may fix much of this ... who knows. In the meantime iRiver is busily putting out firmware updates.
Honestly, if I had had the money, I would have purchased the venerable H140 player, and I recommend to anybody with a huge music library (like I have) to do so. It is a 40gb "UMS" mode and plays Ogg Vorbis files (multi-platform compatibility, in other words). It has 16 hours of battery life too, an FM tuner and a voice recorder. Great stuff. It runs for about $300 or so though, but is worth every penny. On eBay as I am writing this the H120 is available as well - same sauce except 20gb in size.
So, it was work, but I am satisfied with my H10. Yet I have a sneaking suspicion there are many out there who are not, and as a result have returned their product and looked elsewhere.
Previously, iRiver players were well designed portable hard drives that could play mp3's (and do a lot of other things). The H120 and H140 are still generally regarded to be the best things iRiver ever put out. But the H10 models (5gb, 6gb and 20gb) were a departure from iRiver's pattern. These players are ONLY interfaceable with Windows XP machines, and with Windows Media Player 10 (serving as the "sync software" in a similiar way as iTunes does for the iPod) in particular. The H10 5gb and 6gb model does have a firmware alternative to go to portable hard drive mode (although if you purchase it in America it voids your warranty and the firware is not downloadable from the american iRiver website) but the 20gb model does not have such firmware, and indeed is the only iRiver mp3 player without it!
This is all well and good. The problem is simple. Both Windows Media Player 10 and Windows XP are buggy. Which means that the firmware iRiver has been trying to designing to get to work with it is constantly being upgraded. Part of the big seller on the iPod is its flawless interface with iTunes (something I have experience with). The interface between the H10 and Windows Media Player is a pain in the neck. I can't tell you how many forums and reviews I have come across of people being driven crazy by this.
Now. To make the player work there are a few extra things you just don't come across.
1.) HOOKING THE H10 TO YOUR COMPUTER. As simple as this might sound this has been an issue for many people, and has been a buggaboo for me as well. There are two modes the H10 can be in to receive files.
The first in "MTP" mode, where it is supposed to install itself via PnP in the "Portable Media Devices" section. Well, it works on some computers and not on others. And there have been problems with the H10 suddenly "disappearing" from people's computers. For myself the most surefire method is to connect the H10 to my computer and turn it on before it boots up. Then it always shows up and I can send all sorts of files to it.
The second mode it can work in temporarily is "UMS" mode, which is essentially portable hard drive mode. If you go through the sequence to activate this mode it shows up as an external hard drive with a drive letter.
2.) MUSIC FILES. Your music files have to be as detailed and uniform as possible information wise (album, artist, genre, track number, etc.) and to have a playlist file (.mpl or .m3u associated with of all the files) This latter fact is very important.
In "MTP" mode there are two ways to send files to the H10. One is drag and drop ... although if you do this you will have to put your playlists in the appropriate (seperate) folder as well and then use a delightful freebie program to organize the data on the H10 as Windows Media Player 10 would. The program is called EasyH10, and, for those curious, here is their website:
http://easyh10.sourceforge.net/index.html The nice thing about this little program is that you can run it on any version of Windows, on Mac OS and on Linux, thereby allowing you to use the H10 if you have those platforms as well.
The other way to send files in "MTP" mode is simply through Windows Media Player 10. Needless to say this program has not been as easy for me to pick up as iTunes was, nor is it as WYSIWYG in the H10, but I am learning how to make it more "foolproof" ... the great detail in the files themselves seems to be the big key.
But, if you go through the sequence to activate "UMS" mode, you can simply send things to the H10 by the drag and drop method. However, again, you will need the EasyH10 program to organize the data on the H10 for you. I have found, however, that transferring large groups of files in this mode often causes my player to freeze for some reason....
3.) CONCLUSIONS. Whereas I am quite willing to go through the steps to make things like this work, I know many others who are not. It should not be this hard, the iTunes/iPod interface shows that it is possible on the windows platform to do music transfers a whole lot easier.
Perhaps the problem is simply that WMP 10 was not originally designed to transfer data to an external MP3 player. WMP 11 may fix much of this ... who knows. In the meantime iRiver is busily putting out firmware updates.
Honestly, if I had had the money, I would have purchased the venerable H140 player, and I recommend to anybody with a huge music library (like I have) to do so. It is a 40gb "UMS" mode and plays Ogg Vorbis files (multi-platform compatibility, in other words). It has 16 hours of battery life too, an FM tuner and a voice recorder. Great stuff. It runs for about $300 or so though, but is worth every penny. On eBay as I am writing this the H120 is available as well - same sauce except 20gb in size.
So, it was work, but I am satisfied with my H10. Yet I have a sneaking suspicion there are many out there who are not, and as a result have returned their product and looked elsewhere.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
Nice review, thanks.
I think a lot of the problem with having to use WMP is that that whole aspect was rushed to market by MS (big shock, huh?). And, as usual, Apple has the advantage of controlling the hardware *and* the software, which does make thier life a lot easier. Personally, I find iTunes to be a real PITA and a bloated pig, to boot, so I only use it to occasionally buy a stuff and then burn to CD, re-rip and copy to my iH120.
I may have to bite the bullet and pony up for the 140. I just recently filled the 120 and I haven't found anything else I like near as much.
BTW, wouldn't it be easier to just run the cassette player to the line-in on your PC and rip to MP3 there instead of trying to record on the portable?
I think a lot of the problem with having to use WMP is that that whole aspect was rushed to market by MS (big shock, huh?). And, as usual, Apple has the advantage of controlling the hardware *and* the software, which does make thier life a lot easier. Personally, I find iTunes to be a real PITA and a bloated pig, to boot, so I only use it to occasionally buy a stuff and then burn to CD, re-rip and copy to my iH120.
I may have to bite the bullet and pony up for the 140. I just recently filled the 120 and I haven't found anything else I like near as much.
BTW, wouldn't it be easier to just run the cassette player to the line-in on your PC and rip to MP3 there instead of trying to record on the portable?
Mycanid
First Post
Hey there Roderigo. You are right, right, right about connecting the in-line to the computer instead of the H10 dock.
As for getting the H140, you can buy them at:
http://www.misticaudio.net/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=11
It's $290 there.
Hey ... if you have no more use for the H120 you can give it to me!
Seriously though, I'd stick with the H1xx series. Doesn't look like anything else they have produced is anywhere near as reliable. Part of the reason, I am told, for going the route iRiver did in USA in particular was due to a deal with Microsoft. ARGH!
Ah well ... shot themselves in the foot IMO. But the H10 is working well now. At present I have only one little glitch that I am questioning folks on forums about.... The glitch is just inconvenient, it does not inhibit my ability to copy files, etc.
As for getting the H140, you can buy them at:
http://www.misticaudio.net/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=11
It's $290 there.
Hey ... if you have no more use for the H120 you can give it to me!
Seriously though, I'd stick with the H1xx series. Doesn't look like anything else they have produced is anywhere near as reliable. Part of the reason, I am told, for going the route iRiver did in USA in particular was due to a deal with Microsoft. ARGH!
Ah well ... shot themselves in the foot IMO. But the H10 is working well now. At present I have only one little glitch that I am questioning folks on forums about.... The glitch is just inconvenient, it does not inhibit my ability to copy files, etc.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
Heh. The H120 is a little bashed around. I need to use a rubber-band to hold the earphone jack tight. (This is not a reflection on the construction of the iRiver, it's my fault for carrying it around in my jeans' pocket and putting too much pressure on it.)
I'll have to check out the iRiver site and see if they are doing better stuff overseas. Warranty pretty much means jack for all of that stuff anyway.
I'll have to check out the iRiver site and see if they are doing better stuff overseas. Warranty pretty much means jack for all of that stuff anyway.
Mycanid
First Post
Be aware ... they have also released the H320 and H340. These are meant to be the "next generation" H120 and H140 ... but they are also MTP based if you are in USA or Europe. Sigh! 
Oh yes, I forgot. I think the problem is not with iRiver per se. I think it is a Microsoft thing, in particular the aspect of their "Portable Media Device" Control Panel>Windows Media Player 10 interface. It's relatively new for them. Remember how long it took them to get USB 2.0 right? I think it will take them time to get this right too. Once they do, it, like USB 2.0, will be almost glitch free.
Oh yes, I forgot. I think the problem is not with iRiver per se. I think it is a Microsoft thing, in particular the aspect of their "Portable Media Device" Control Panel>Windows Media Player 10 interface. It's relatively new for them. Remember how long it took them to get USB 2.0 right? I think it will take them time to get this right too. Once they do, it, like USB 2.0, will be almost glitch free.
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