[Iron Heroes] Using the core spellcasters...

[RSKennan]

As some may know, I have a published setting in need of a revamp. It's called Morningstar, and it's set during the heroic age of what will become a medieval fantasy world. Great monuments, high magic, empires, etc. I've been lamenting the fact that standard D20 hasn't been giving what I see as the proper feel for the setting- the characters need to be larger than life, and they need to be more important than their equipment. The PCs are supposed to become legends that future generations will strive to match.


I just recently got Iron Heroes and I have to say, it seems to fit the bill. Despite statements that it's best for a low-magic setting, I'm finding that it would mesh perfectly with my view of what Morningstar should be. Almost, anyway. The only aspect that won't be perfect is magic.

I'd like to adapt the standard spellcasting classes to IH. Can it be done assuming the same lack of magical swag for these characters? In another thread, SweeneyTodd brought up a few good points. Among them the idea that standard spellcasters would be too weak at low levels. Would adding in the special abilities of the arcanist class help? Any other caveats or ideas?

 

[Particle_Man]

I'd like to adapt the standard spellcasting classes to IH. Can it be done assuming the same lack of magical swag for these characters? In another thread, SweeneyTodd brought up a few good points. Among them the idea that standard spellcasters would be too weak at low levels. Would adding in the special abilities of the arcanist class help? Any other caveats or ideas?

The problem as I see it is that IH heroes, souped up by magic, would be ungodly powerful. So maybe if IH heroes were "cursed" to be immune to beneficial magic, and could not get magical benefits from any magic items found, it would be ok. Then the "standard" spellcasters could cast hostile magic vs. enemies, or buff themselves, and of course make magic items to use themselves.

Oh, and to close this loophole in advance, do not allow IH heroes to take the Vow of Poverty from Book of Exalted Deeds. Just don't.

 

[Voadam]

If spellcasters are too weak you could increase their hp and saves, give them freer metamagic use so it is useable at lower levels, although something stunt oriented but magic exclusive would probably be most appropriate.

Remember a D&D spellcaster with the same magic items as an IH warrior is theoretically weaker ECL for ECL so something would need to be added in throughout the levels to keep it balanced.

 

[RangerWickett]

RSKennan, you'd then have the drawback that you'd need three books to play Morningstar -- the campaign setting, Iron Heroes, and the core rules. What if you came up with your own magic system and included it in the campaign setting book? I had a copy of your book (had to sell it when funds were tight, sadly), and I really enjoyed it, and alternative magic systems have long been my specialty. I've got a few spare ones lying around if you're interested.

*grin*

 

[Michael Tree]

If youŕe porting over D&D classes to IH, at the very least you should improve their BAB, saving throws, feat progression, and hit points to be in line with how those things work in IH, and give them access to a few skill groups.

Some spells should probably be eliminated. Spells that give saving throw bonuses should be reduced, since IH saves are high enough as it is, and several of the nastier non-personal range buffing spells should be removed too, or changed to have personal range. Id also remove Teleport and raise dead, but more for flavor reasons than game balance.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think one of the main points would be to remove item creation feats (except maybe Scrolls and Wands) and all other magic items.

All buffing spells have to be carefuly checked and possible weakened or removed.
Cat´s Grace could give only a +2 bonus to Dex and last only 1 round per level.
Spells like Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon would be unbalanced against humanoid opponents (since armor DR is DR/magic) and should probably be removed.

It is important that none of the other characters in the group (those beside the casters) rely on spells cast on them. They can maybe rely that their Mage will cast a Fireball at their opponents, but a Cure spell or a Bull´s Strength for them would be unusual.

 

[Mouseferatu]

On a slight, and more general, tangent...

I'd make sure that a sufficiency of Iron Heroes is Open Content before you do this. And remember that even if it is, you may not be able to mention that fact.

Now, I can only speak for one person--that would be me --but I can tell you that I might buy a new version of Morningstar if it was made for standard D20, but not if it was designed to require some other sourcebook. I've got a hard enough time keeping track of options without having to branch out even further. I have IH, and it looks cool so far, but I'm not in the market for IH-based settings.

 

[RSKennan]

RSKennan, you'd then have the drawback that you'd need three books to play Morningstar -- the campaign setting, Iron Heroes, and the core rules. What if you came up with your own magic system and included it in the campaign setting book? I had a copy of your book (had to sell it when funds were tight, sadly), and I really enjoyed it, and alternative magic systems have long been my specialty. I've got a few spare ones lying around if you're interested.
*grin*

I love alternate magic systems, and I'd love to see any you had, but I don't know if I'd be able to use it, as my comments below will explain. Thanks though.

 

[RSKennan]

I think one of the main points would be to remove item creation feats (except maybe Scrolls and Wands) and all other magic items.

Unfortunately, I have a class called the artificer (Keith Baker, Mongoose and I were on the same frequency, apparently.)

All buffing spells have to be carefuly checked and possible weakened or removed.
Cat´s Grace could give only a +2 bonus to Dex and last only 1 round per level.
Spells like Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon would be unbalanced against humanoid opponents (since armor DR is DR/magic) and should probably be removed.

It is important that none of the other characters in the group (those beside the casters) rely on spells cast on them. They can maybe rely that their Mage will cast a Fireball at their opponents, but a Cure spell or a Bull´s Strength for them would be unusual.

Good points. Thank you.

 

[RSKennan]

On a slight, and more general, tangent...

I'd make sure that a sufficiency of Iron Heroes is Open Content before you do this. And remember that even if it is, you may not be able to mention that fact.

Now, I can only speak for one person--that would be me --but I can tell you that I might buy a new version of Morningstar if it was made for standard D20, but not if it was designed to require some other sourcebook. I've got a hard enough time keeping track of options without having to branch out even further. I have IH, and it looks cool so far, but I'm not in the market for IH-based settings.

You're absolutely right. I was just swept up in the excitement and promise of Iron Heroes. And of course, you're right about checking OGC; this was just a feeler.

Assuming that the right stuff is OGC, it's looking like some of the the subsystems might be easily adapted to D20; traits, skill challenges, stunts, etc., but not classes and the larger view of things.

Iron Heroes is exciting though.