Iron Heroes vs Conan

[ValhallaGH]

Fate Points. They are less plentiful than action points but more powerfull. One use of them is to be "Left For Dead" which works prety much the way you would expect.

Except for the fact that if you're not saved within that hour, you probably do die. Most characters do have trouble with a DC 20 Fort save.

For those that don't know, you look dead rather than actually being dead. If you get healed within the next hour then you're fine, if still at negative hp. If you don't get healed you attempt a fort save, failure means death and success means stabilization at -9.

 

[Vigilance]

My players found IH to involve way too much counter-tracking for their taste.

We greatly prefer Conan.

 

[Pbartender]

Where I personally feel IH fell short is in not "finishing the job" by making spellcasters work on similar mechanics. Now, that's probably because spellcasting isn't Mike Mearls' design specialty...

Actually, it's admittedly because Mike got hired for a new job at WotC, while still in the middle of working on IH. He had to rush a few bits (most notably the magic system) in order to get the book done before he started his new job.

It's not a big problem, since there are plenty of alternatives out there, the simplest and least expensive of which is just not allowing the Arcanist as a playable class.

It's a shame, but hey... there it is.

 

[ruleslawyer]

My players found IH to involve way too much counter-tracking for their taste.

We greatly prefer Conan.

I still think the counter-tracking is a bit of a canard. I do have one player (wizofice, care to comment?) who doesn't like token-based characters (not a big deal for him; he plays a harrier, one of IH's three non-token-based classes, not counting the arcanist). Tokens are really, REALLY not that big a deal to track.

The ruleset is a bit more complicated than Conan, though. This has its ups and downs. On the upside, IH PCs' class abilities are, IMHO, more interesting than those for the Conan classes, especially at high levels. The Conan classes tend to be a bit on the bland side for my tastes, and too front-loaded. Certain classes are also, IMHO, just too weak (buccaneer and borderer, I'm thinking of you!). IH is just more mechanically-inclined in general.

 

[Vigilance]

I still think the counter-tracking is a bit of a canard. I do have one player (wizofice, care to comment?) who doesn't like token-based characters (not a big deal for him; he plays a harrier, one of IH's three non-token-based classes, not counting the arcanist). Tokens are really, REALLY not that big a deal to track.

The ruleset is a bit more complicated than Conan, though. This has its ups and downs. On the upside, IH PCs' class abilities are, IMHO, more interesting than those for the Conan classes, especially at high levels. The Conan classes tend to be a bit on the bland side for my tastes, and too front-loaded. Certain classes are also, IMHO, just too weak (buccaneer and borderer, I'm thinking of you!). IH is just more mechanically-inclined in general.

Well, as a GM it was too complicated for me, since the opponents in my games are more likely to be NPCs than monsters, that's a LOT of extra record keeping.

And a couple of my players expressed a desire NOT to use the system because they just didn't want to track the counters.

I wasn't judging the product, which is why I specified my comments were strictly the opinions of me and my group.

If you like it, great. I don't think it's a "canard" to say it was too complicated for me and my group though, cause it was.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, as a GM it was too complicated for me, since the opponents in my games are more likely to be NPCs than monsters, that's a LOT of extra record keeping.

And a couple of my players expressed a desire NOT to use the system because they just didn't want to track the counters.

If you use the villain classes in the Mastering Iron Heroes book and the Iron Heroes Bestiary, you could do without worrying about the extra book keeping. Though these classes won't work for you if you really enjoy tinkering out NPCs. And, off course, you'd have to buy to at least one extra book to get them at all, which might or might not be something you want to do...

 

[Vigilance]

If you use the villain classes in the Mastering Iron Heroes book and the Iron Heroes Bestiary, you could do without worrying about the extra book keeping. Though these classes won't work for you if you really enjoy tinkering out NPCs. And, off course, you'd have to buy to at least one extra book to get them at all, which might or might not be something you want to do...

Its cool there's a workaround. If I was going to run IH I'd definitely buy the extra books.

I liked IH a lot, so don't think I'm dissing the system. If I was going to run a Final Fantasy game, I would probably use IH, after I wrote up some magic wielding classes.

But currently my players and I are having too much playing Conan with some optional crunch folded in.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yeah; IH PC-classed characters are not really intended for use as NPCs (although a couple crop up in published adventures; go figure). The villain classes are specifically designed to provide NPC opponents, and are incredibly useful tools. (I'd actually like to see D&D go with this as well.) Also, D&D-classed characters make excellent NPCs for IH; I tend to just pull those out of books as needed.

[EDIT: Vigilance, my point about counter-tracking being a canard was a general one. I understand that your group found IH too fiddly, but I do think that a lot of people (not you) who are passingly familiar with the idea that IH has token generation mechanics single out tokens as a big complicated thing, and my experience does not reflect that.]