Iron Kingdoms with Grim Tales

[GIBattiste]

Hey guys! I was refered over this way from the Privateer Press forums for more help on and IK/Grim Tales conversion. I hope that people here might be a bit more familiar with both products. I hope this isn't a breach of etiquette linking to another forum, but pasting the thread on this side seems rude.

http://forums.privateerpress.com/index.php?showtopic=41149

Thanks for any help.
Battiste

 

[Karl Green]

I think it is a GREAT idea BTW... I have put a little work into converting it but I got distracted by my Lord of the Rings Blue Rose/True20 conversion of late to many really cool systems out there right now

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Either/or on the classes (don't mix'n'match). Personally, I'd agree with most of the posters in the other thread and break out the stuff from IK that has no GT counterpart into feats and talents. But I'd be sparing -- if it has a GT equivalent, use it. With the free multiclassing and the range of talent trees (most of which are easy to get into), you can accomodate most any character concept.

I don't know IK, so I can't answer the spell question. However, there are some things to watch out for. Primarily, if you are going to have spellcasting cause temporary ability damage, you need to be wary of spells that let you heal that damage. Same goes if you are having spell damage go to hit points, vitality, whatever. You want your GT casters weighing whether or not they need to cast a spell, knowing that if they blow the roll, they may not have any oomph left when they really need it.

Second, GT presumes that the GM is going to ration the spell lists and only hand out those spells he wants in his campaign. D&D-type casters are used to being able to have pretty much whatever they want, and this can be a tough adjustment.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I don't have IK (yet?) but I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have about Grim Tales.

I was actually directed to your thread over there earlier today, and it looks like you are on the right track to me.

EDIT: One thing that jumped out to me over there was that it looked like you hadn't seen (what I consider) some pretty critical errata for the Improved Caster Level talent: It doesn't increase your Spell Burn Resistance.

Now, you're free to ignore that, of course, but I wanted to mention it.

EDIT 2: Pay close attention to what Rodrigo and HeapThaumaturgist may suggest here (or there). If I can't answer some Grim Tales related question, these two guys have put in a lot of time and thought as well, and bear payin' attention to. (There are others, but these two are top-of-mind at the moment...)

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Maybe Wulf will wander by and offer us some tidbits from his anxiously awaited magic supplement. Oh, hi, Wulf. What are you doing posting here when you should be writing?

 

[GlassJaw]

I really need to get the IK Character Guide. I have Lock n Load and the World Guide but I haven't had a chance to check out any of the classes yet.

I've actually been working on some variant rules for a steampunk campaign using GT. I suspect that I'll probably borrow/convert quite a bit from IK. I'm hoping to acquire said tome soon so I'll chime in when I have something to add.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Maybe Wulf will wander by and offer us some tidbits from his anxiously awaited magic supplement. Oh, hi, Wulf. What are you doing posting here when you should be writing?

EDIT 3: Except for the sassy crap. Pay no attention to the sass.

 

[Bobitron]

See that, Battiste? I knew Wulf would shoe up pretty quickly.

 

[GIBattiste]

Wow, really! No extra resistance to spell burn? Yikes. I think I would have to ignore that. I have talked to Rob and Doug over at Privateer, and as fluff writer guys, they wanted me to be straight that the IK universe is a lot more magic rich then people will give it credit for. (Warjacks and warcasters are pretty magical.)

With the spell burn are written, I thought it dangerous, but not magic poor. This would definately change up the mix a bit. I will be keeping a handle on magic lists available to wizards and the sort, while giveing a bit more free reign to the clerics. I can see IK clerics needing a lot of access to healing magic. Pain of healing in IK I think helps temper the urge a player may have to abuse the forces of the gods. Perhaps I should give clerics free access to just the domains available to the cleric by choice. (Boy am I gonna have some pissy players!)
Wizards I will probably limit to three first or so to start, and then the one spell a level bit. Wizards, I don't think, will be up for sharing spells. The IK does have several tight knit wizard societies, and I think a guild might allow one extra spell a level.

While this is much higher magic then the true pulp feel of GT, IK needs something more then standard 3.5 D&D.

I am definately sticking to the 6 classes of GTs. I will be allowing prestige classes as normal, and I WILL NOT rework feats and talents that are already printed in GT. That would be redundant work, and it is hard enough to get me to do normal work.

How effective do players find it if they are allowed to abuse spells that heal spell damage? I can't see it being that effective, being that you could get burned worse for the trouble.

Where I am at, what do you think about the idea I posted about spell levels? I would like to get casters up to 20th level, so what would you think about the imp. caster talent giving +2 caster level, and +1 burn resistance. It does get spell burn to the point where you only worry about rolling a 1 on a D6... that with a "fox's cunning" would be an effective shield. Hmmm, limit the spell, or make a mechanic that if you take spell burn, you effectively get your buffs dispelled.

Magic items are really giving me a headache as well... I hate D&D item creation about as much as I hated slotting your spells. GT has some great ideas about time and xp on magic items. What do you guys think about people sacrificing others xp, willing or no, for magic item creation? Also, in IK, there is a 20% flat chance of losing a hp for every 200 xp you spend on an item. How would you guys figure something like that in? I am pretty sure that once I wrap my head around how I want to handle magic items for sure, all the IK mechanika rules will fall into place. (who am I kidding?)

Thanks a lot.

Battiste

 

[Andre La Roche]

Where I am at, what do you think about the idea I posted about spell levels? I would like to get casters up to 20th level, so what would you think about the imp. caster talent giving +2 caster level, and +1 burn resistance. It does get spell burn to the point where you only worry about rolling a 1 on a D6... that with a "fox's cunning" would be an effective shield. Hmmm, limit the spell, or make a mechanic that if you take spell burn, you effectively get your buffs dispelled.

I'd just like to point out that CL 20 in Grim Tales would be absolutely lethal, and probably very unbalanced. Using the massive damage threshold of GT, most of those level-dependant damage effects are going to have a better chance of wiping out characters than they would in standard D&D. A CL of 10 is still really dangerous in the system (a 10d6 fireball dealing an average of 35 pts of damage--well beyond the threshold for most characters) and is something to be feared by pretty much anyone in the game, the same way that CL 20 is in standard D&D.

Also, ignoring the errata on Improved Caster Level means that a straight-up 20th level Smart, Dedicated, or Charismatic hero would have Spell Burn Resistance 8 before factoring in their ability modifier.

This means that a character with an 18 in the relevant stat could have SBR 8 by 11th level. Then let's say they pick up Master Eldricth Flow at 13th level and suddenly start casting everything with a d8 spell burn die. This combo of spell burn 8 and a d8 spell burn die suddenly drops your chances of rolling 1s, while simultaneously providing you the benefit that rolling an 8 increases the caster level or DC.

Suddenly the parts of this system that did such a great job of turning magic into a rare mysterious thing are negated, and you end up with a character who faces very few limitations on spellcasting. If you want a standard D&D level of magic permeating the campaign, then by all means go ahead with this, it's your game.

However it sounds to me like something a bit below D&D, but above the GT baseline would work better for you. In that case I'd almost recomend an "Improved Spell Burn Resistance" feat or talent. I'd personally go with the feat that can only be taken once, granting something along the lines of a flat +2 bonus to SBR. And if you want to still keep the limitations of casting but pad the lethality, perhaps another feat that makes it so that SBR can't ever reduce you below 1 in Con. This would still have the effect of allowing the characters to keep casting indefinitely since spell burn itself couldn't ever kill you, but it would be prohibitively costly in terms of what else it affected indirectly as by that time even a single point of damage would require a Fort Save to prevent death from massive damage.

A lot of these ideas I just worked out roughly right now, so don't be too surprised if upon further inspection they don't hold up. Sometimes food for thought doesn't provide much sustenance.