Iron vs. Cold Iron?

[AuraSeer]

Previous D&D versions did have metal that came from meteors; it was called (oddly enough) "meteoric iron," and it gave weapons some special properties. This may have been part of the inspiration for modern cold iron, but it is not the same thing.

 

[AnthonyJ]

Also, historically speaking meteoric iron was better quality metal than was otherwise available (at least in the ancient world), and thus really did justify some special properties.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Isn't it a theory that Iron would have actually come from outer space, in the sense that Iron is a physical anomaly, its atomic composition (electrons, protons and neutrons) being very peculiar, and requiring tremendous amounts of energy to be created?

Where have I heard this from? I know it's silly, since we actually find iron ore in the ground...

AR

 

[Ackem]

Isn't it a theory that Iron would have actually come from outer space, in the sense that Iron is a physical anomaly, its atomic composition (electrons, protons and neutrons) being very peculiar, and requiring tremendous amounts of energy to be created?

Where have I heard this from? I know it's silly, since we actually find iron ore in the ground...

AR

Everything came from space to begin with. I think you're refering to the fact that Iron is stellar debris, which is true but nothing spectacular. Any element heavier then Hydrogen or Helium was once part of a star. Iron, for example, is created, more or less exclusively, by the 7th stage of stellar activity in a star or by a supernova.

As to how it gets into the ground, our entire solar system was once part of the cloud of debris leftover from a supernova. We can tell by how "dirty" our sun is. First generation stars are pretty much pure Hydrogen and Helium, but the sun has traces of heavier elements in it. Which indicates it's a second generation star and formed out the leftovers from a first generation.

 

[the Jester]

Everything came from space to begin with. I think you're refering to the fact that Iron is stellar debris, which is true but nothing spectacular. Any element heavier then Hydrogen or Helium was once part of a star. Iron, for example, is created, more or less exclusively, by the 7th stage of stellar activity in a star or by a supernova.

As to how it gets into the ground, our entire solar system was once part of the cloud of debris leftover from a supernova. We can tell by how "dirty" our sun is. First generation stars are pretty much pure Hydrogen and Helium, but the sun has traces of heavier elements in it. Which indicates it's a second generation star and formed out the leftovers from a first generation.

You sound like you have quite a bit of astonomical knowledge here- I'm very curious to know a little more.

Does that mean that it's too heavy to form, even in small quantities, in the fusion happening in our sun now? (I know the sun forms some heavier elements, but I'm not sure how heavy they get. Does any of that happen while it's still burning hydrogen, or does all the H fuse before the He starts?)

Sorry bout the highjack!

 

[Gez]

"Cold" don't refer to "not-heated", but to "less heated than usual". IRL, it may correspond to wrought iron rather than cast iron or pig iron (that are more heated).

 

[Gez]

And of course, such a thread wouldn't be complete without a bit of poetry:

Cold Iron
'Gold is for the mistress - silver for the maid!
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.'
'Good!' said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
'But Iron - Cold Iron - is master of them all!'

So he made rebellion 'gainst the King his liege,
Camped before his citadel and summoned it to siege -
'Nay!' said the cannoneer on the castle wall,
'But Iron - Cold Iron - shall be master of you all!'

Woe for the Baron and his knights so strong,
When the cruel cannon-balls laid 'em all along!
He was taken prisoner, he was cast in thrall,
And Iron - Cold Iron - was master of it all!

Yet his King spake kindly (Oh, how kind a Lord!)
'What if I release thee now and give thee back thy sword?'
'Nay!' said the Baron, 'mock not at my fall,
For Iron - Cold Iron - is master of men all.'

'Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown -
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.'
'As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small,
For Iron - Cold Iron - must be master of men all!'

Yet his King made answer (few such Kings there be!)
'Here is Bread and here is Wine - sit and sup with me.
Eat and drink in Mary's Name, the whiles I do recall
How Iron - Cold Iron - can be master of men all!'

He took the Wine and blessed It; He blessed and brake the Bread.
With His own Hands He served Them, and presently He said:
'Look! These Hands they pierced with nails outside my city wall
Show Iron - Cold Iron - to be master of men all!

'Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong,
Balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
I forgive thy treason - I redeem thy fall -
For Iron - Cold Iron - must be master of men all!'

'Crowns are for the valiant - sceptres for the bold!
Thrones and powers for mighty men who dare to take and hold.'
'Nay!' said the Baron, kneeling in his hall,
'But Iron - Cold Iron - is master of men all!

Iron, out of Calvary, is master of men all!'

by Rudyard Kipling

 

[Camarath]

You sound like you have quite a bit of astonomical knowledge here- I'm very curious to know a little more.

Sites you might find of interest Formation of the High Mass Elements and Nuclear Synthesis

 

[nameless]

As has been said in the thread already, cold iron historically refers to wrought iron, which was heated only enough to be pounded by a hammer, never melted into cast iron or pig iron.

I've read in mythology books that cold iron was a weapon against fey because it was a symbol for civilization's destructive opposition to nature, it was the first thing that really required a "civilized" city to craft.

As for iron coming from stars, the way that it was explained to me simply was that all the elements lighter than iron are made in all stars, because fusion of elements lighter than iron is exothermic and keeps the star's furnace going. The fusion reaction to create iron (and all heavier elements) is endothermic and contribute to the death of the star. Only the biggest, most ancient stars were capable of fusing the heaviest elements, and only after the rare preceding heavy elements were formed and managed to find each other.

Meteoric iron refers to adamantite as far as I can remember from previous editions/revisions.

 

[MerakSpielman]

You sound like you have quite a bit of astonomical knowledge here- I'm very curious to know a little more.

IIRC, from my Astronomy 101 class (read: not an expert), the fusion process in stars "burns" Hydrogen (atomic number 1) to create helium (atomic number 2). A higher temperature (greater starting mass) is requred to ignite helium to get lithium (atomic number 3). Lithium, in turn, can be burned to get Beryllium (atomic number 4). And so on and so on until you reach iron (atomic number 26). The regular fusion reaction of a star cannot create elements heavier than Iron. All elements heavier than iron in the entire universe are created in (super)novae, when the heat and pressure reach, momentarily, the point needed to fuse fundamental particles into such large atoms.