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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8716997" data-attributes="member: 67338">but casters in general (but bards especially and for a reason) get spells that can counter or just auto do skills. So a caster can choose to 'do climb but better' but a non caster can't make that choice... but if the caster DOESN'T choose 'climb but better' nothing stops them from having the same skill and same use the non  caster has...take 1 player in 2 different campaigns (my Saturday night crew runs 2 weeks of 1 game then 2 weeks of another then back and forth so I see this all the time... and in our case 1 DM is 99% the DM of 1 of the 2 and the other 3 of us alternate the other game campagin to campaign and we have done this dating back to 3.5) in campaign 1 the player is a Fighter... he is really good at RP and is creative and uses his skills to his upmost. He is lets say a Purple Dragon Knight (about lv 9 but real close to 10, since this example will be loosely based on Kurt from a few years ago)... in campagin 2 he is a multi classed Bard/Hexblade (lv 2 warlock lv 5 bard) he is no less creative, and no less likely to RP well, and no less likely to use skills in creative ways... BUT in game 1 his options are MUCH more limited then in game 2. In game 2 not only can he get creative with his skills but he has 2 or 3 invocations and a bunch of spells and class features that change the game much more... and when he is just RPing with skills some of his skills are just better (Expertise so higher numbers) in fact his lower level lower str bard (neither are str builds) is BETTER at atheltics then the fighter with the better str.str 15 fighter str 13 bard/warlock... BUT the bard has expertiseyeah I think Perception is the #1 skill used with persuasion and insight coming in 2nd but I would guess the social and mental skills are goup dependent why? what skill checks are you making with those regularly? as I said before you can have features/spells that make them useless. so do bards...and rouges and paladins and 2 out of three of those get spells (1 a full caster) and 2 of them get expertise...and no class has special access really, I can make a wizard (soldier) or a fighter (sage) or a barbarian (soldier) or barbarian (sage) the backgrounds really do skills more, some clases get 1 free skill but Bard and ROgue get more and expertise... warlocks (like say a hexblade) can at level 2 pick a single class based mini feat called an invocation and train in all the social skillsno they aren't. FIghters have the same (in some cases less) skills anyone else does... but not 1 feature, not 1 ability of the fighter class improves them. You can't even say "Well if you choose this special feature over that special feature"</blockquote>

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