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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8720201" data-attributes="member: 6801252">Heh, I'm more cynical, I think that the narrative can complexify, people do have brand loyalty to DND, but the 'new coke' branding of 4e actually triggered a backlash due to that sense of loyalty, 'fixing the problems of 3.5' was understood as an attack on people who enjoyed 3.5. I actually think the narrative of 5e as a return to form was more powerful than how much people actually liked or disliked the mechanics. Everyone who left because of how they perceived 4e wanted to try it because 'real DND is finally back' and you had the 4e base, which was actually still bigger than the leavers because 4e brought in plenty of new people, there was no competing 4e clone this time to seduce them away (13th age is sufficiently different from 4e to preclude that) so 5e ended up with a massive amount of momentum as the 4e and 3.5 playerbases reunited, add the geek chic, streaming take off, and the accompanying wave of nostalgia getting some people to pick it back up who hadn't played since college, and the momentum only accelerates.I'd even go so far as to say that 5e is less popular than it could be because of all the things it's not, and those things are going to probably cause a lot of players to leak away over time, both from the hobby as a whole, or from WOTC specifically. I think other RPGs are getting a bigger share of 5e's 'new' players than they would have if 5e had been less conflicted about story vs. mechanics, or had just finessed the design better, and given players better post PHB support (and built a game that enabled that.) I can't know that, but I don't think its an unfair assesment.Edit: 'leak away over time' EVEN IF they manage to bring in more new people than they lose current players, in other words I'm expecting the ratio to be smaller in DND's favor than it would have been with a better core system and all its existing advantages, while still expecting it to continue to be the best selling game by a longshot.</blockquote>

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