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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nightfly" data-source="post: 8726211" data-attributes="member: 89601">Absolutely true. 4e taught the 5e designers that fighters could be complex, for example. The Battlemaster fighter is very mechanically different than the 4e fighter, but they're clearly trying to scratch the same itch. 5e also kept the "laser cleric" concept, the idea that wizards should be strong right at first level, that Vancian casting is awful and needs to die, that hard-coded alignment effects aren't necessary... I could go on. 5e looks nothing like 4e, but it managed to bring along many of 4e's best ideas. One of my hopes for the 50th anniversary edition is that they lean even further into that. Now that the 4e haters aren't foaming at the mouth any more, I think they can salvage even more from 4e's design. Starting with the monsters, please! 4e monsters were great.</blockquote>