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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8727035" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Okay, I can actually see that!</p><p></p><p>So yeah, I agree. That is something I was missing. All four of those games have rules that, moment-to-moment, resolve pretty quickly and smoothly, without a lot of checking books or details or so on. The level of crunch and complexity varies a lot, but in all cases the momentary resolution is relatively quick.</p><p></p><p>This isn't true of a lot of other games - Cyberpunk 2020 often didn't resolve that quickly, nor does Shadowrun in any recent edition. 3E/PF1 would be right out (the sheer modifier math alone can make things take a very long time). 4E would be less successful on this basis but nowhere near as bad as 3E/PF1. Hmmm it feels like there's something more.</p><p></p><p>Oh I think that's the other thing - none of these games is likely to cause<em> analysis paralysis</em> when you're taking a turn, as your real options at any moment, tend to be quite limited. Combine that with the smooth resolution and you get these more fun-to-play games. I think this holds back Savage Worlds and PF2, both of which are well-designed, better designed than most of the above, mechanically, but easily create situations where you as a player can suffer from analysis paralysis, and where you do sometimes have to go back and forth checking stuff. PF2 for example has this very clever "3 action" system, but means that your choices at any given time, of what you COULD do, are much wider than D&D, which obviously good on one level, but can easily cause people to take a lot longer to decide what to do, as well (system expertise can help with this of course - but you show how WoD, for example, worked well without system expertise!).</p><p></p><p>Another factor I think is that of multiple actions generally - games which have multiple actions as a routine thing (Shadowrun, Champions, etc.) pretty much never run that smoothly without serious system expertise/player experience.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8727035, member: 18"] Okay, I can actually see that! So yeah, I agree. That is something I was missing. All four of those games have rules that, moment-to-moment, resolve pretty quickly and smoothly, without a lot of checking books or details or so on. The level of crunch and complexity varies a lot, but in all cases the momentary resolution is relatively quick. This isn't true of a lot of other games - Cyberpunk 2020 often didn't resolve that quickly, nor does Shadowrun in any recent edition. 3E/PF1 would be right out (the sheer modifier math alone can make things take a very long time). 4E would be less successful on this basis but nowhere near as bad as 3E/PF1. Hmmm it feels like there's something more. Oh I think that's the other thing - none of these games is likely to cause[I] analysis paralysis[/I] when you're taking a turn, as your real options at any moment, tend to be quite limited. Combine that with the smooth resolution and you get these more fun-to-play games. I think this holds back Savage Worlds and PF2, both of which are well-designed, better designed than most of the above, mechanically, but easily create situations where you as a player can suffer from analysis paralysis, and where you do sometimes have to go back and forth checking stuff. PF2 for example has this very clever "3 action" system, but means that your choices at any given time, of what you COULD do, are much wider than D&D, which obviously good on one level, but can easily cause people to take a lot longer to decide what to do, as well (system expertise can help with this of course - but you show how WoD, for example, worked well without system expertise!). Another factor I think is that of multiple actions generally - games which have multiple actions as a routine thing (Shadowrun, Champions, etc.) pretty much never run that smoothly without serious system expertise/player experience. [/QUOTE]
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