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Is a CR 30 monster a suitable challenge for a 20th level party?
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6773792" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Hmmm, that is pretty good, certainly at least on par with 2nd edition--but the Tarrasque was notoriously easy to kill in 2nd edition. I still see some potential exploits that could nullify the Tarrasque without a Wish. Bestow Curse is the most obvious one (perma-stun), but you could also get an Intellect Devourer (via True Polymorph or alliance with mind flayers) to just eat its mind, after you've reduced it to 0 HP. Also, you could cast Sleep on it and then drown it, or toss it in a volcano. (Not as easy as if it didn't have Immutable Form, but should still be doable.)</p><p></p><p>Then there's Power Word: Kill, and Imprisonment, and Shadows that drain strength, and undead/demons that reduce your maximum HP until a long rest. I can see Contagion (Slimy Doom) playing a part in the disposal process too.</p><p></p><p>And it is still somewhat kitable unfortunately. 600' ranged attack is good, but a Sorlock can hit 1200' with Distant Spell, and a regular Sharpshooter mounted on a Phantom Steed has an effective range of 700' (because his steed can Dash for 200' of movement during his turn) unless the Tarrasque holds an action. Plus there are siege engines mounted on spelljamming ships. Regeneration helps deal with that, but I'd recommend bumping up the range to 800' (like a DMG mangonel) just in case. It'll still be susceptible to melee kiting by Mobile Moon Druids though (Earth Glide + Mobile = awesome).</p><p></p><p>So basically, if I had to kill your version of the Tarrasque I would probably set up a Symbol of Insanity (which targets its +5 Int save) or five, and then have a Sharpshooter on a Phantom Steed try to kite it into the Symbol of Insanity, at which point the rest of my team springs into action (e.g. Paladorc and his Simulacrum charge out and begin Smiting (need to find a way to prevent them from falling victim to insanity though)) to get it down to zero HP. Then the druid can Contagion it (Paladorc will Bend Luck to make it more likely that it fails) and the wizard will Bestow Curse to perma-stun it, and the horde of shadows the wizard created previously using True Polymorph/Shadow Dragon will descend upon the unconscious Tarrasque to drain all of its Strength while an Intellect Devourer eats its mind...</p><p></p><p>If I had to I could probably find a few more exploits that don't involve Wish or a spelljamming ship.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, your version does deserve its CR 30 rating, but I think it requires a bit more tweaking to justify its <em>reputation</em> as a recurring, civilization-destroying menace. Either fix its vulnerabilities, or keep its abilities secret, or make it so there is more than one of them. A truly terrifying Tarrasque is one that reproduces regularly (either by laying Godzilla eggs or else via grotesque, amoeba-like fission that probably leverages its regenreation). Imagine if you took your Tarrasque and make the number of Tarrasques double once a week, the way Witchlight Marauders and tribbles do! Combine that with some ambiguity in the intel on the Tarrasque's abilities and suddenly you have a genuine existential threat to the whole civilization which 1.) can plausibly be addressed by the PCs, if they are smart, but also 2.) can plausibly be said to have ended multiple ancient civilizations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6773792, member: 6787650"] Hmmm, that is pretty good, certainly at least on par with 2nd edition--but the Tarrasque was notoriously easy to kill in 2nd edition. I still see some potential exploits that could nullify the Tarrasque without a Wish. Bestow Curse is the most obvious one (perma-stun), but you could also get an Intellect Devourer (via True Polymorph or alliance with mind flayers) to just eat its mind, after you've reduced it to 0 HP. Also, you could cast Sleep on it and then drown it, or toss it in a volcano. (Not as easy as if it didn't have Immutable Form, but should still be doable.) Then there's Power Word: Kill, and Imprisonment, and Shadows that drain strength, and undead/demons that reduce your maximum HP until a long rest. I can see Contagion (Slimy Doom) playing a part in the disposal process too. And it is still somewhat kitable unfortunately. 600' ranged attack is good, but a Sorlock can hit 1200' with Distant Spell, and a regular Sharpshooter mounted on a Phantom Steed has an effective range of 700' (because his steed can Dash for 200' of movement during his turn) unless the Tarrasque holds an action. Plus there are siege engines mounted on spelljamming ships. Regeneration helps deal with that, but I'd recommend bumping up the range to 800' (like a DMG mangonel) just in case. It'll still be susceptible to melee kiting by Mobile Moon Druids though (Earth Glide + Mobile = awesome). So basically, if I had to kill your version of the Tarrasque I would probably set up a Symbol of Insanity (which targets its +5 Int save) or five, and then have a Sharpshooter on a Phantom Steed try to kite it into the Symbol of Insanity, at which point the rest of my team springs into action (e.g. Paladorc and his Simulacrum charge out and begin Smiting (need to find a way to prevent them from falling victim to insanity though)) to get it down to zero HP. Then the druid can Contagion it (Paladorc will Bend Luck to make it more likely that it fails) and the wizard will Bestow Curse to perma-stun it, and the horde of shadows the wizard created previously using True Polymorph/Shadow Dragon will descend upon the unconscious Tarrasque to drain all of its Strength while an Intellect Devourer eats its mind... If I had to I could probably find a few more exploits that don't involve Wish or a spelljamming ship. Anyway, your version does deserve its CR 30 rating, but I think it requires a bit more tweaking to justify its [I]reputation[/I] as a recurring, civilization-destroying menace. Either fix its vulnerabilities, or keep its abilities secret, or make it so there is more than one of them. A truly terrifying Tarrasque is one that reproduces regularly (either by laying Godzilla eggs or else via grotesque, amoeba-like fission that probably leverages its regenreation). Imagine if you took your Tarrasque and make the number of Tarrasques double once a week, the way Witchlight Marauders and tribbles do! Combine that with some ambiguity in the intel on the Tarrasque's abilities and suddenly you have a genuine existential threat to the whole civilization which 1.) can plausibly be addressed by the PCs, if they are smart, but also 2.) can plausibly be said to have ended multiple ancient civilizations. [/QUOTE]
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Is a CR 30 monster a suitable challenge for a 20th level party?
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