Is a golem bane scarab overpowered or underpriced?

[zoroaster100]

My players (with 11th level characters) recently encountered an iron golem. Most of them fled in fear except one of the fighters. He faced off with it single handedly without fear. When he first struck it, he revealed he had purchased a golembane scarab when they were last in a city (the fact I didn't know that is a separate issue). He then sheepishly acknowledged the scarab is a bit powerful, and cost him only 2,500 gp. It allows someone to ignore the damage resistance of any golem. The warrior then proceeded to lay waste to the iron golem in a few rounds. This has caused me to wonder if this item is underpriced or overpowered. For a cheap 2,500 gp it allows characters to take down any golem, basically overcoming on ef the two special advantages (the other being magic immunity) of an entire type of creatures in the game. So much for anyone needed adamantine weapons! What do you think? Is the item overpowered for its price? If not, why not? If so, how much should it cost instead?

 

[Prism]

I see it as being priced just right i think. There are many ways to get around DR and most of them are fairly cheap if very specific. An adamantine weapon costs 3k but is much more useful in the long run as it is hard to sunder, break through doors, walls, chests and also works vs DR against other creatures. Silver, magic, even good weapons are easy to get. An arrow of golem slaying costs just over 2k and is pretty much an instant kill nearly 75% of the time. I'd say 2.5k for a slotted specific item that helps slightly against a certain type of creature is ok.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It is useless except in the case of fighting golems. Golems are very rare, so the item is definitely not overpowered. I think it's priced perfectly.

I'd do two things:

1. Make sure he doesn't have any other amulet, periapt, brooch or that sort of thing. I'd bet a minimum that he does. A player who tries to cheat like this will cheat at other things. In fact, double-check his whole character sheet and tell him I suggested you do it.

2. Didn't tell you? Holy moly, I hope that's not a common trend in your campaign. I would have handled it by saying, "Oh, sorry, you don't have any scarab. The Magic Store (tm) was fresh out. But, hey, now you're standing alone next to an iron golem."

 

[Prism]

2. Didn't tell you? Holy moly, I hope that's not a common trend in your campaign. I would have handled it by saying, "Oh, sorry, you don't have any scarab. The Magic Store (tm) was fresh out. But, hey, now you're standing alone next to an iron golem."

This kind of depends on the DM. In our group a few of us take turns to DM - some don't really care what the characters have in the way of items and don't really track it, whereas others like to see the characters before running/planning. I can see both points of view , but if it was me and i trusted the player i'd have no problem the player having an item like that without my foreknowledge.

 

[Sejs]

It's fine.

Golembane Scarab: costs 2500 gp, lets you ignore the DR of golems only.

Adamantine weapon: costs 3000 gp, lets you ignore the DR of golems, people with Stoneskin, several other things that arn't golems, object hardness under 20, locks, most doors, most walls, makes sundering very easy.

I'd allow a golembane scarab LONG before I allowed an adamantine weapon in my game. If you want that iron golem to make your players wet themselves, have it grapple. Large, 33 str, a 2d10 slam, a con poison gas breath weapon that they can toss off over and over, and your fighter types won't be able to use their weapons? Mm mm good.

 

[moritheil]

Golembane scarabs are only effective against a subtype of construct - golems - not an entire type of monster. I suspect that you know this, but I just want to be clear for the record. They do not work against clockwork horrors, effigies, or other constructs. The golembane scarab is balanced on the assumption that golems are very rare and thus the item is almost never useful. Personally, I think the best part of the golembane scarab is the instant detection of golems within 60' - not the ignoring DR. This allows a party to instantly know if a given construct is a golem, which in turn means they are less likely to waste high-level spell slots figuring that out.

I second Inf's assertion that the item appearing is questionable, though I do not automatically suspect cheating when someone is careless. IMC, we do not allow purchases or item creation that are not cleared with the DM beforehand.

Now, getting back to the issue you actually asked about: golembane scarabs are useful, but a golem can still dish out damage and use spell-like abilities, and still has its magic immunities. How was the fighter able to single-handedly kill the golem? Can you go into detail?

 

[Bad Paper]

Also do not forget that the scarab hogs the "neck" slot on a PC. One of my players has to swap out her amulet of health +4 to use her golembane scarab.

Nevertheless, I think the item is foolish and should not exist at all. It just. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

 

[Infiniti2000]

This kind of depends on the DM.

Sure, that's why I said "I". If the players don't need me to run the game, then I'd not be the DM. In this case, apparently the DM is not needed. The players get to buy whatever they want whenever they want. Not IMC and I daresay not in a vast majority of campaigns.

In our group a few of us take turns to DM - some don't really care what the characters have in the way of items and don't really track it, whereas others like to see the characters before running/planning.

We rotate DMs as well, but each DM runs a different campaign. This is a topic for the general forum, but I'd never rotate DMs in the same campaign.

I can see both points of view , but if it was me and i trusted the player i'd have no problem the player having an item like that without my foreknowledge.

You mention trust like it has any relevance here. It doesn't. This isn't about trusting a player or not, it's about him making decisions on the campaign world that he does not have the authority to do. Sure, if you tell him beforehand, "Yeah, any magic item under 4,000gp is available." Then okay, but my preference as a DM is to at least know what he did or did not buy. A lot of DMs out there are very strict as to what's available, and I'm not even saying that's what should happen, but a player cannot suddenly spring a new item on the DM. As an analogy, imagine the player saying, "Oh, my character went into the woods and killed a band of orcs. I gave myself 800XP so I levelled. I also found some loot."

 

[zoroaster100]

Usually the player's check with me if they can find the item they wish to buy. That is why on this occasion I was surprised. But I don't think the player was cheating. I think he just planned the purchase and subtracted the money, but forgot to ask me if he was able to find the item. But for the future I'll make it clear they need to clear any purchases with me. As for the original question, I have been convinced the price is not that unreasonable after all.

 

[Prism]

Sure, that's why I said "I". If the players don't need me to run the game, then I'd not be the DM. In this case, apparently the DM is not needed. The players get to buy whatever they want whenever they want. Not IMC and I daresay not in a vast majority of campaigns.

When we have downtime the DM's sometimes allow the players to buy/make stuff from the DMG etc. Scrolls and potions are often not checked, other items maybe - it depends

We rotate DMs as well, but each DM runs a different campaign. This is a topic for the general forum, but I'd never rotate DMs in the same campaign.

You're right, its probably not for this forum but briefly - we did this in a recent campaign from 1st-10th and it worked pretty well even though no DM had control of which items the players had or even really looked at the character sheets

You mention trust like it has any relevance here. It doesn't.

I meant is the player trusted not to add an item to their character sheet on the fly mid combat which is possible if the DM has no idea what items they have

A lot of DMs out there are very strict as to what's available, and I'm not even saying that's what should happen, but a player cannot suddenly spring a new item on the DM.

Thats one of the fun things i like about DMing - players springing stuff on me - and I expand that from unusual tactics to include possibly unknown items, and unawareness of which spells they have memorized. It does depend on the campaign though i agree and sometimes i'm fussier than other times. It works well for the RPGA games where you get a brief check of the character sheets if you want and off you go