Is a Kickstarter for this Epic Bestiary book a good idea?

[ART!]

I work in printing, and have worked in publishing as well, so I'm familiar with the costs and quality options. That plus my understanding of DTRPG's options, and of gamers - and specifically gamers who back Kickstarters - makes me lean toward rather heavily toward Kickstarter as the way to go for you. My only caveat would be that if you have major qualms about any of KS's policies, obviously that could be a deciding factor.

If you go the KS route, I would recommend a couple things:

1. Build printing and shipping delays into your timetable, and then on your project page state that expected delivery date/month/whatever
2. Make sure your project page looks good and reads well. I've decided not to back Kickstarters that was interested in but that were clunky, awkward, or just no fun to read and look at. That project page - especially the top of the page! - can make all the difference, so get some extra pairs of eyes on it before launching.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy ClerNickName!

I'm all for crowdfunding an epic bestiary. But I'm soured on Kickstarter.

Can you give me more information? Would you be happier with Indiegogo or is it just crowdfunding in particular you are burned out from?

I have been burned on a few Kickstarters in the past, plus crowdfund delays always leave a sour taste in the mouth. That would (fingers crossed) never happen to me. I will not start a crowdfund unless the book is basically ready for print.

(feel free to private message me if you need to).

 

[S'mon]

Might just have to bite the bullet and make it Standard Colour (matte pages) via Drivethru RPG, even though I really want glossy pages*. At least it means I can set it at an affordable price.

*I can always get myself a full glossy version printed out via a private publisher I guess.

Yes. This. Or offer both Standard & Premium versions. Include PDF and I can't see any cause for complaints, and you get the material out there.

If you were going to do a Kickstarter (a) set a low target (b) have all the writing and art already done (c) be ready to market heavily across many many sites.

Personally I think it's too big a risk Craig, you have a reputation to maintain and I think a low risk Drivethru route is the way to go. If that generates funds & publicity, maybe then Kickstart later.

Which brings up another point - you like many publishers tend to do massive super-high-value massive tomes, but buy-in on drivethru is a lot lower when you break them up into several smaller products. You could release some smaller (64 page?) works on drivethru, and if they sell well then look at Kickstarting a single mega-tome.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there ART!

I work in printing, and have worked in publishing as well, so I'm familiar with the costs and quality options. That plus my understanding of DTRPG's options, and of gamers - and specifically gamers who back Kickstarters - makes me lean toward rather heavily toward Kickstarter as the way to go for you. My only caveat would be that if you have major qualms about any of KS's policies, obviously that could be a deciding factor.

I know Kickstarter won't pay out until funding is met. I also know they don't have an In Demand option (as with Indiegogo).

My concerns are:

1. Quality - we know Drivethru RPG premium print quality is poor-average compared to what another printer could handle.
2. Print Run size - at this juncture I have to anticipate I won't sell more than 250 hardcover books. To make a small profit at a reasonable price I need to print 1250 copies. So if I only have a small print run 250 books lets say, then I probably have to charge $20-25 more than what I would like to - which means I have to go the ultra deluxe quality route.
3. With any crowdfund I have the added fuss/time/costs of setting up the Project Page and Video.

Question - can Kickstarter/Indiegogo fulfill PDF backers? Or do I need another third-party for that?

If you go the KS route, I would recommend a couple things:

1. Build printing and shipping delays into your timetable, and then on your project page state that expected delivery date/month/whatever

I'm not even starting a crowdfund until I have the book completed (at least at the editing stage). That said, the timetable would have to incorporate the clearance of the funds, printing and shipping.

2. Make sure your project page looks good and reads well. I've decided not to back Kickstarters that was interested in but that were clunky, awkward, or just no fun to read and look at. That project page - especially the top of the page! - can make all the difference, so get some extra pairs of eyes on it before launching.

Can you point to examples you thought were good?

 

[ART!]

Hey there ART!

Howdy!

I know Kickstarter won't pay out until funding is met. I also know they don't have an In Demand option (as with Indiegogo).

My concerns are:

1. Quality - we know Drivethru RPG premium print quality is poor-average compared to what another printer could handle.
2. Print Run size - at this juncture I have to anticipate I won't sell more than 250 hardcover books. To make a small profit at a reasonable price I need to print 1250 copies. So if I only have a small print run 250 books lets say, then I probably have to charge $20-25 more than what I would like to - which means I have to go the ultra deluxe quality route.
3. With any crowdfund I have the added fuss/time/costs of setting up the Project Page and Video.

Question - can Kickstarter/Indiegogo fulfill PDF backers? Or do I need another third-party for that?

I have never created a KS project, so I do not know the ins and outs. I'm sure there's lots of advice out there on websites and on forums like this - including on the Kickstarter site. You can probably ask them questions, too.

Can you point to examples you thought were good?

Tastes vary, but as a rule i would suggest looking at Kickstarters that are over and that did really well, and look at their project pages. You need a flavorful, concise blurb at the top of the page that covers what the project is and what it's for. I've seen projects that don't give me enough info to peak my interest/curiosity in that little preview you see as you're scrolling through or searching Kickstarter.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

Yes. This. Or offer both Standard & Premium versions. Include PDF and I can't see any cause for complaints, and you get the material out there.

Its the quality of the Standard/Premium versions that are the main issue (that and the cost of the Premium version).

Plus do I want two products out there with a massive disparity of quality...?

If you were going to do a Kickstarter (a) set a low target (b) have all the writing and art already done (c) be ready to market heavily across many many sites.

I'm slow enough that I think I'll have to have all the work done before I start it.

Personally I think it's too big a risk Craig,

Risk? You mean financially? Or in following through with the Crowdfund?

you have a reputation to maintain

I suspect my only 'reputation' at this point is being the 'epic' guy that takes ages to finish a project.

and I think a low risk Drivethru route is the way to go. If that generates funds & publicity, maybe then Kickstart later.

The funding isn't a problem.

1. I simply don't want to release a poor quality book (if I can avoid it).
2. I sort of need to know how many copies to print - which seems to necessitate a crowdfund - which has all those associated complications.

Which brings up another point - you like many publishers tend to do massive super-high-value massive tomes, but buy-in on drivethru is a lot lower when you break them up into several smaller products. You could release some smaller (64 page?) works on drivethru, and if they sell well then look at Kickstarting a single mega-tome.

Unfortunately, in my idiocy this book's page count has spiraled out of control and while I could divide it up piecemeal that doesn't sound like any EPIC book I want to create: I want immortal PCs and divine power up to Supreme Being, I want an Epic Magic system that goes all the way up to casting Big Bang and then goes beyond, I want rules for monsters bigger than a skyscraper, bigger than a mountain, bigger than a planet and heck even bigger than a universe if you need it, I want over 60 epic monsters that are just going to put the fear into players again!

I just want to make the most EPIC D&D book I can and to be honest I don't care whether it loses money* or not as long as I am happy with it and the people who get it either love it or just say "you know what, now that's EPIC!!". This stuff isn't my living, its my passion.

*although hopefully not.

Its the minutiae of getting a top quality product into someone's hands, this is what I need to weigh up and sort out.

 

[CleverNickName]

Howdy ClerNickName!



Can you give me more information? Would you be happier with Indiegogo or is it just crowdfunding in particular you are burned out from?

I have been burned on a few Kickstarters in the past, plus crowdfund delays always leave a sour taste in the mouth. That would (fingers crossed) never happen to me. I will not start a crowdfund unless the book is basically ready for print.

(feel free to private message me if you need to).

Hello there!

I don't have a problem with the shipping delays, and I understand the risks associated with crowdfunding in general. That's not really a problem for me. (I waited months and months to get my copy of The One Ring 2E, and my Twisted Taverns stuff finally showed up this afternoon after multiple delays. My excitement and satisfaction with the final products was not diminished in the least.)

No, I'm disappointed in Kickstarter's decision to use blockchain. While they've since walked back their original announcement, I'm not supporting any Kickstarter projects until we get a hard "no" from them, in writing. I don't want to derail this thread with yet another rant about NFTs, though...so that's all I'll say about that.

If you decide to fund this project through a different platform, please post about it here! I'll be one of your first backers.

 

[S'mon]

Hey S'mon!



Its the quality of the Standard/Premium versions that are the main issue (that and the cost of the Premium version).

Plus do I want two products out there with a massive disparity of quality...?



I'm slow enough that I think I'll have to have all the work done before I start it.



Risk? You mean financially? Or in following through with the Crowdfund?



I suspect my only 'reputation' at this point is being the 'epic' guy that takes ages to finish a project.



The funding isn't a problem.

1. I simply don't want to release a poor quality book (if I can avoid it).
2. I sort of need to know how many copies to print - which seems to necessitate a crowdfund - which has all those associated complications.



Unfortunately, in my idiocy this book's page count has spiraled out of control and while I could divide it up piecemeal that doesn't sound like any EPIC book I want to create: I want immortal PCs and divine power up to Supreme Being, I want an Epic Magic system that goes all the way up to casting Big Bang and then goes beyond, I want rules for monsters bigger than a skyscraper, bigger than a mountain, bigger than a planet and heck even bigger than a universe if you need it, I want over 60 epic monsters that are just going to put the fear into players again!

I just want to make the most EPIC D&D book I can and to be honest I don't care whether it loses money* or not as long as I am happy with it and the people who get it either love it or just say "you know what, now that's EPIC!!". This stuff isn't my living, its my passion.

*although hopefully not.

Its the minutiae of getting a top quality product into someone's hands, this is what I need to weigh up and sort out.

OK, well if your project goal is primarily non-commercial, Kickstarter does seem the best approach. Make sure your funding target covers all production & distribution costs after Kickstarter's cut and taxes, while also being low enough to incite interest, and leave space for plenty of stretch goals which should already have been done too - one thing I've learned is that successful Kickstarter projects do absolutely everything they can do, before the campaign launches.

 

[S'mon]

my Twisted Taverns stuff finally showed up this afternoon after multiple delays

My friend Kimberly Pauley authored some of that! She seemed to have a ton of fun ideas in there - hope you enjoy it!

 

[cavetroll]

I would say Kickstarter. This is the type of book I would be interested in but not through Drivethru. I may be in the minority but I find the print quality of drivethru to be below average in paper quality/thickness, ink saturation and brightness and binding quality. I have stopped buying PoD because I find it a terrible value in quality to price, and not fun to handle and view.

My understanding is that kickstarter is only worth it if you have an established internet presence such that you can get enough eyeballs over there.

I have a question though, lets say you have the quality of the D&D books, hardcover, which is fantastic quality. Then you have the drivethru hardcover quality.

How does the lulu self publishing quality compare to them? Much better than drivethru?