Is All Still Quiet on the SRD Front?

[JohnSnow]

I'm sure WotC also has some (justifiable) concern that the instant they release the draft rules to the OGL publishers, someone will get a hold of it and post it online. However, an iron-clad NDA would probably prevent that.

I think it's more likely that they're waiting until they have the feedback in from their open playtest before they release the draft rules to publishers. And even then, it'll probably be in the form of a document bound up so tight by an NDA that the publishers will be able to say they've received the rules, but nothing at all about them.

Frankly, I don't mind WotC waiting to release the draft rules to the OGL community until after they can integrate the feedback from their open playtesting. Based on what the designers have said on Gleemax, that'll probably be later this month or sometime in early January.

But I'm just speculating.

 

[DaveMage]

I'm sure WotC also has some (justifiable) concern that the instant they release the draft rules to the OGL publishers, someone will get a hold of it and post it online. However, an iron-clad NDA would probably prevent that.

I think it's more likely that they're waiting until they have the feedback in from their open playtest before they release the draft rules to publishers. And even then, it'll probably be in the form of a document bound up so tight by an NDA that the publishers will be able to say they've received the rules, but nothing at all about them.

Frankly, I don't mind WotC waiting to release the draft rules to the OGL community until after they can integrate the feedback from their open playtesting. Based on what the designers have said on Gleemax, that'll probably be later this month or sometime in early January.

But I'm just speculating.

Yeah, if the rules are in the state of flux that they seem to be, then until they get things ironed out, it would probably be better to avoid giving out bad information.

 

[kenmarable]

I'm sure WotC also has some (justifiable) concern that the instant they release the draft rules to the OGL publishers, someone will get a hold of it and post it online. However, an iron-clad NDA would probably prevent that.

I don't see why that is a justifiable concern. It didn't happen with 3.0 when anyone who said "I want to be a d20 publisher" got a copy of the rules. (I know, I was one of them.) It didn't happen with 3.5 when there were gobs and gobs of companies out there. So, why would they fear it would happen now especially when there are only a handful of active d20 publishers? Looking at print alone, the only ones still standing all have very good reputations. Looking at PDF, well, there's still a wide variety, but really there are only a very small number that have remained active as opposed to how many were around during 3.5 launch.

So, if anything, there's far LESS of a threat of someone posting the rules than during the previous two launches, and with both of those, no copies of the rules were widely distributed before hand anyway.

I think it's more likely that they're waiting until they have the feedback in from their open playtest before they release the draft rules to publishers. And even then, it'll probably be in the form of a document bound up so tight by an NDA that the publishers will be able to say they've received the rules, but nothing at all about them.

Frankly, I don't mind WotC waiting to release the draft rules to the OGL community until after they can integrate the feedback from their open playtesting. Based on what the designers have said on Gleemax, that'll probably be later this month or sometime in early January.

But I'm just speculating.

On the one hand, I agree that solid rules to the other publishers would be good. However, the other publishers are all professional designers and can handle a couple updates and adjust their products accordingly without any problem. Much better to get something that's close months earlier and using the extra time to tweak for the final changes (if they even impact anything in the product) than to wait until much later to see any rules whatsoever - even if they are 100% final. But that's just my opinion if I were in Paizo/Necromancer/etc.'s shoes.

 

[Rechan]

On the one hand, I agree that solid rules to the other publishers would be good. However, the other publishers are all professional designers and can handle a couple updates and adjust their products accordingly without any problem. Much better to get something that's close months earlier and using the extra time to tweak for the final changes (if they even impact anything in the product) than to wait until much later to see any rules whatsoever - even if they are 100% final. But that's just my opinion if I were in Paizo/Necromancer/etc.'s shoes.

Can you imagine having to update every d20 publisher with all the rules changing? Every time something is fixed, every time a playtest report comes back and they need to make an adjustment, they have to send an email out to all the people on the d20 list?

That's a whole lot more paperwork, just to follow up on "tweaking".

Especially when you consider what happens if Company X doesn't get the new memo. If they change something that effects Other things, and company X doesn't get the email by accident or internet hickup, then there's other things that will be wrong.

 

[TerraDave]

I'm sure WotC also has some (justifiable) concern that the instant they release the draft rules to the OGL publishers, someone will get a hold of it and post it online. However, an iron-clad NDA would probably prevent that.

They already have realesed the draft rules: to playtesters.

Who are being pretty tight lipped. I don't think a small number of 3rd party publishers would be more likely to leak (which raises the question: do some of them already have this...).

 

[Erik Mona]

Especially those publishers who worked with and held secrets for WotC for more than five years....

I'm sure there are many good reasons why Wizards has not shared this material with third-party publishers yet, but "we're afraid they'll leak it" probably isn't one of them.

I will admit that it is weird, though, that most of my best freelancers have had the rules for months, but I haven't seen a thing. Sort of a frustrating position, but I am getting used to it.

--Erik

 

[hazel monday]

I will admit that it is weird, though, that most of my best freelancers have had the rules for months

--Erik

What? So does that mean we can start pestering people like Nick Logue and Mike Kortes for info on the 4e ruleset? Sucks to be them.

 

[Cadfan]

*shrugs*

If I were a really small third party publisher, I'd probably just get a buddy to sign up as a playtester, and borrow his notes. Total violation of his NDA, I know, I know. But...

I wouldn't do that as a real player. But a basement PDF company might not care.

Anyways, I don't think the fact that publishers are writing for other systems says anything at all. Even if they had a full, hardbound copy of the SRD hand-delivered to them on a gold platter carried by vestal virgins, they STILL would be screwed for anything they could sell between now and June. They can't pay bills for 7 months by getting ready for 4e's release.

 

[kenmarable]

*shrugs*

If I were a really small third party publisher, I'd probably just get a buddy to sign up as a playtester, and borrow his notes. Total violation of his NDA, I know, I know. But...

If only it were that easy to get someone into playtesting. With 3.0 the playtesting was that easy to get into (I got 2 different copies of the rules ahead of time just by asking). 4e - not even close. Believe me, I've tried.

 

[kenmarable]

Can you imagine having to update every d20 publisher with all the rules changing? Every time something is fixed, every time a playtest report comes back and they need to make an adjustment, they have to send an email out to all the people on the d20 list?

It would be nice if all d20 publishers could get a copy of the rules, but with even a moderate "must have published X amount in past year" would weed it down pretty thin. Or even just Goodman, Necromancer, Green Ronin, and Paizo at first. Either way, just set up one email list for only the publishers you have given the rules out to early. One email updates everyone. It worked for 3.0.

Also, I wouldn't suggest every change being pushed out. Most likely an initial "this is what we have now" and then another when it's finalized. So only one tweak/update is necessary.

Especially when you consider what happens if Company X doesn't get the new memo. If they change something that effects Other things, and company X doesn't get the email by accident or internet hickup, then there's other things that will be wrong.

Actually, this one is pretty easy. Company X's product isn't compatible and looks bad. No skin off of WotC's back (Well, no more than any other bad d20 product coming out around 4e reflecting on d20 in general). It's on Company X to follow up if they think they haven't receive the finalized rules when they should have.

How this has been handled before was with a limited membership email list. And if you suddenly stop receiving emails from it, or if everyone else on the list is talking about the final rules you never got, then it's pretty clear there was a problem.


So there's definitely pros and cons to every approach. I'm just saying that I don't think sending out the preliminary rules to major/established publishers and then another copy when the rules are finalized would cause great confusion among publishers.

Concerning this issue there's two scenarios:

A) Getting preliminary rules early. These rules may differ greatly from the final version, but you can get it months ahead of time (if it was sent out at the same time as playtest and freelancer material first went out, the publishers would have had it months ago). Then in January or even later getting the 100% complete ruleset and possibly having to rework a lot of my material.

B) Waiting until January at the earliest and possibly later for the 100% complete ruleset and knowing I won't have to rework anything.

There's no question I would prefer A. Even if the rules are only a 50% match to the final version, it lets me know the basics of the system, a rough idea of what is in and out, etc. Plus, when the final rules are sent out, it's a far better position to be in if you are reworking an existing product to match rule changes (after spending months learning 4e) than to be starting to learn the system and write products from scratch before you need to get it off to the printers.

That all being said, I'm near positive the delay isn't fear of leaks, or wanting to avoid 3rd party publishers getting confused, or anything like that. It's probably the simple fact that they are really friggin' busy right now.