Is D&D abstract or micromanaged?

[Ashrem Bayle]

Realism? D&D has never been about realism in the sense of our world. It's about realism in a mythic/superhero sense. And if you can't create urgency or dread for your PCs in the D&D world, then you're not trying hard enough. As you may have noticed from reading the threads on ENWorld, lots of DMs are doing so very successfully.

The point was not that you can't create urgency and dread, but that you can't do it with a knife to the throat.

But yes, a lot of what you folks are saying is correct. And what I'm saying is that the abstract nature of D&D, and the fact that it throws realism out the window (then goes outside, finds it, sets it on fire, and burns it), is what has turned me against it.

Myself and my players prefer something a little more realistic. A lot of us are very tactical when it comes time to roll initiative, and prefer to use real life tactics instead of "D&D Tactics" when we play.

Thus, d20 is no longer my preferred system. But by all means, enjoy!

 

[JohnSnow]

Both. And for the most part, I think it hits the balance nicely between enough granularity to be interesting and enough abstraction to be playable.

The only place I have a problem is where there are rules incentives to destroy certain genre conventions. Full attacks trigger that in me, as do hit points escalating to the point where being surrounded by crossbow wielding guards isn't enough of a threat to give you pause.

Those are all fixable with small changes to the rules though. And I'm hopeful that Star Wars Saga Edition appears to be going in that direction.

 

[shilsen]

The point was not that you can't create urgency and dread, but that you can't do it with a knife to the throat.

Fair enough, though I'd add that a DM who's suficiently well-informed about the rules can add a significant amount of urgency and dread with a knife to the throat.

But yes, a lot of what you folks are saying is correct. And what I'm saying is that the abstract nature of D&D, and the fact that it throws realism out the window (then goes outside, finds it, sets it on fire, and burns it), is what has turned me against it.

That's beautiful I'm going to have to quote you.

Myself and my players prefer something a little more realistic. A lot of us are very tactical when it comes time to roll initiative, and prefer to use real life tactics instead of "D&D Tactics" when we play.

Thus, d20 is no longer my preferred system. But by all means, enjoy!

And the same to you. As long as we're both playing things that we enjoy, I figure we're doing a-okay.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

That's beautiful I'm going to have to quote you.

I just wanted to add that while I think I'm done with D&D for most of my fantasy gaming (for now, 4e may convince me to give it a try), I'm eagerly awaiting SW Saga Edition.

The Starwars setting isn't about realism, and I'm fine with that.