D&D General Is D&D Beyond Exclusivity Bad for D&D?

[DEFCON 1]

Does everyone buy every single thing that someone (like WotC) offers to them? If the answer is 'No', then WotC is likewise under no obligation to make everything they offer available to everyone. (General) you aren't going to buy everything they offer... they don't have to offer everything for (general) you to buy.

WotC is under no obligation to make sure every single thing they sell is able to be bought by every single person in the manner in which every single one of those people wishes to buy them. Especially if those people aren't even buying most of the stuff WotC does sell in the manner in which they would buy it if they bothered. So I don't think anyone really has any right to be truly upset about it.

Would it be nice to have the opportunity to buy something WotC has made in the format that the potential buyer would want it? Sure! No arguments with that. But just because something would be nice to have doesn't mean it is something a person should have.

 

[AlViking]

I was just pointing out that physical only wasn't the only other option like you implied.

Not following. We have books both physical and digital. The adventures available online are too short to justify a book so either no one gets them or they
make them available digitally.

They could make that digital copy a PDF, they don't.

 

[Maxperson]

Not following. We have books both physical and digital. The adventures available online are too short to justify a book so either no one gets them or they
make them available digitally.

They could make that digital copy a PDF, they don't.

The context of the discussion has been DDB only, so when you responded, I figured that's what your context was. I didn't realize you were including PDFs.

 

[mamba]

Does everyone buy every single thing that someone (like WotC) offers to them? If the answer is 'No', then WotC is likewise under no obligation to make everything they offer available to everyone. (General) you aren't going to buy everything they offer... they don't have to offer everything for (general) you to buy.

so if I buy everything, does that mean they have to offer me PDFs then? Don’t think so, it’s more like these are two completely unrelated topics

 

[DEFCON 1]

so if I buy everything, does that mean they have to offer me PDFs then? Don’t think so, it’s more like these are two completely unrelated topics

Completely unrelated? I wouldn't say so.

A person thinks they should be able to buy something they currently can't have, when they aren't buying something they currently can. Both sides are an inverse to each other. And thus in my opinion related.

 

[FrogReaver]

I wanted to move this discussion out of the new AP thread out of respect for folks that want to talk about, you know, that.

So here we have a place where we can debate the question of whether WotC's apparent leaning into D&D Beyond exclusivity -- meaning not just not offering their digital books elsewhere, but actively putting otu things that will only appear on Beyond -- is bad for D&D and/or bad for customers.

I will not obscure my opinion: Beyond exclusitvity is bad, full stop. It is a crass bludgeon meant to drive people to that platform, and it stinks of the enshittification of D&D. I will not support Beyond, and am pretty sure it is time to stop supporting WotC overall.

Part and parcel with this is the debate about PDFs, which WotC is completely schizophrenic about. Old D&D stuff? Fine! Partnered content? Fine! But official 5E material -- HELL NO (except when it is not "hell no). The reason PDFs matter is PDFs are something you can own. And, IMO, no, forcing customers to make PDFs of badly formatted web pages is not a solution -- it is an insult.

SO that's my perspective, laid out. What's yours?

A note: I know many of us are going to disagree, but let's please try and not attack ONE ANOTHER even if we feel thew need to attack opinions. As @Umbran is almost certain to have to say, let's not make it personal.

I don’t think a single exclusive thing on d&d beyond matters of itself. The real concern is the signal it sends that this shift in direction has a chance of becoming predominate. That's what people are reacting to. There's certainly a way to thread that needle, but it can be a fine line.

I'm not sure how younger generations feel, i suspect they find such practices more normalized, but I think my generation and older will react very negatively to that kind of change in direction.

 

[FrogReaver]

Does everyone buy every single thing that someone (like WotC) offers to them? If the answer is 'No', then WotC is likewise under no obligation to make everything they offer available to everyone. (General) you aren't going to buy everything they offer... they don't have to offer everything for (general) you to buy.

WotC is under no obligation to make sure every single thing they sell is able to be bought by every single person in the manner in which every single one of those people wishes to buy them. Especially if those people aren't even buying most of the stuff WotC does sell in the manner in which they would buy it if they bothered. So I don't think anyone really has any right to be truly upset about it.

Would it be nice to have the opportunity to buy something WotC has made in the format that the potential buyer would want it? Sure! No arguments with that. But just because something would be nice to have doesn't mean it is something a person should have.

I don't think this issue is one of obligations. It's more that after there are already common established product channels, that moving similar products away from such channels and into a walled garden in the hopes of selling a service is very consumer unfriendly. It creates trust issues.

 

[payn]

I don’t think a single exclusive thing on d&d beyond matters of itself. The real concern is the signal it sends that this shift in direction has a chance of becoming predominate. That's what people are reacting to. There's certainly a way to thread that needle, but it can be a fine line.

I'm not sure how younger generations feel, i suspect they find such practices more normalized, but I think my generation and older will react very negatively to that kind of change in direction.

Generally I think you are correct. As a gen xer I was worried about this 20 years ago, but now don’t really even think about it. It’s already normalized for me as well.

 

[Sulicius]

That's a good question! I am annoyed whenever they put something on DDB only, that I cannot get on Roll20.

So far, this have been DDB exclusives.

I believe this is what has been for purchase on DDB only so far

• Netheril's Fall
• Lorwyn: First Light
• Astarion's Book of Hungers
• Adventure Atlas: The Mortuary
• Monstrous Compendium Volume 4: Eldraine Creatures
• Misplaced Monsters: Volume One
• Cthulhu by Torchlight (Chaosium)
• Malady of Minarrh (Road to Ithaka Press)
• Storm Lord's Wrath
• Sleeping Dragon's Wake
• Divine Contention

 

[delericho]

Caveat: I'm not on D&D Beyond. That said...

I don't have a problem with companies putting out material on a digital-only walled garden, and offering subscriptions to it. Indeed, those "library subscriptions" are a pretty good thing - they give limited-time access to a lot of material for a reasonable fee. The fact that materials can appear and disappear from those libraries can be unfortunate, but it's something the customer just needs to price in: either subscribe for a short period to access the specific things you want to use now, or subscribe long-term and accept the changing buffet.

What I do object to is companies allowing you to "buy" products in a digital format that you can't then download. Because in that case you don't in any sense own the product - you have it entirely at the whim of that company and/or the pressures of the market. IMO, when making a purchase customers should insist on physical media or, at least, a file format that they can download and keep permanently. (And, for the avoidance of doubt, it's equally unacceptable if you can download it but need to maintain an internet connection for "verification" purposes.)

(Oh, and if you do buy something in a downloadable format, make sure you actually do download it! Having access to an online library is great and all, but you're still at the mercy of that library being pulled. It still rankles that I lost bought-and-paid-for PDFs of D&D material when WotC pulled their licenses last time. (Which was decades ago now, so it's a pretty small annoyance... but just enough for me to remember it and mention it here. )