Is D&D (WotC) flaming out?

[Umbran]

There is a much larger segment who could be pleased, but whom WotC are not pleasing. Simply ignoring that segment is a bad idea, especially if it's possible to please that group without also alienating the people who are currently pleased with the offering.

Ah, but those people who could be pleased will probably not be all pleased by the same thing. And there lies the crux of the matter - no one product (or product line, or product strategy) is going to please everyone, or even most, any more than one novel will please most readers of fiction all at once.

Gamer tastes in games are kind of like their tastes in pizza - everyone has their favorite combination of things they want to see that would please them, but in order to really and truly please everyone, everyone would need their own individual pizza. Otherwise, someone's putting up with something they feel is sub-optimal.

I am coming to the opinion that frequently it is our own inflexibility and unwillingness to accept the sub-optimal as still pretty good that's alienating us from things, more than what gets produced. This goes beyond gaming, by the way, to culture in general.

 

[Stormonu]

All I know is that WotC isn't making products that interest me anymore, and I really do wish they did have a line of products that fit my tastes. For now, my money is simply going to other companies, which certainly can't be helping their profit margin.

 

[catsclaw227]

Nor are they automatically good. Adventure Paths are railroad fests and sorry Dragonlance already did that and did it better.

The first sentence is true, the second one is absolutely false. Look at Kingmaker AP from Paizo. The new Slumbing Tsar from ex-Necromancer games' One Frog God Games.

I abjectly deny that adventure paths are all railroads and are a bad thing.

I ran Age of Worms and had a great time sandoxing the side of the game.

 

[Asmor]

The first sentence is true, the second one is absolutely false. Look at Kingmaker AP from Paizo. The new Slumbing Tsar from ex-Necromancer games' One Frog God Games.

I abjectly deny that adventure paths are all railroads and are a bad thing.

I ran Age of Worms and had a great time sandoxing the side of the game.

Any printed adventure *must* to some extent be a railroad. Perhaps one with lots of branches and tracks, but still a finite number. Adventure paths only exacerbate the issue by forcing assumptions as to the resolution of previous adventures.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

All I know is that WotC isn't making products that interest me anymore, and I really do wish they did have a line of products that fit my tastes. For now, my money is simply going to other companies, which certainly can't be helping their profit margin.

That depends upon whether the cost of producing something that interests you would also interest enough other people to make those products profitable. If not then ignoring you helps their profit margin more than catering to you.

 

[DragonLancer]

Paizo's older AP's Shackled City and Age of Worms are IMO both A+++ campaigns and the perfect example of how a campaign should be. It is telling a great heroic story from start to finish with plenty of room for side quests and player determined material.

The third one (Blood Drenched Tides?) I didn't find so good but it has proven invaluable for ideas, scenarios and plots for the current Pathfinder campaign I preparing for.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm pretty sure the answer is "maybe".

I am 50% confident your answer is probable.

 

[Diamond Cross]

I just know that deep in my heart the answer is possibly.

 

[Stalker0]

I am coming to the opinion that frequently it is our own inflexibility and unwillingness to accept the sub-optimal as still pretty good that's alienating us from things, more than what gets produced. This goes beyond gaming, by the way, to culture in general.

I actually think that is a strength for pen and paper games, not a detriment.

When I play WOW, I'm getting pepperoni Dominos pizza. Its good pizza, but if I want pineapple Papa Johns I'm out of luck.

Its the fact that PnP games are so flexible and customizable that allows each group to "get its own pizza". While its a pain for the makers of PnP products, ultimately I think its what keeps their industry afloat.

 

[rounser]

Ah, but those people who could be pleased will probably not be all pleased by the same thing. And there lies the crux of the matter - no one product (or product line, or product strategy) is going to please everyone, or even most, any more than one novel will please most readers of fiction all at once.

But that's what we've got _now_. A shoe labelled "D&D" that doesn't fit a lot of people who it once did.

Would they have alienated less existing players and drawn more new players if they'd tried something more like a fix of 3E and the AD&Ds (as say 3e was to 2e, but with faster combats and prep as goals for instance) rather than rolling the dice on a new game wearing the D&D logo? In retrospect, I think that is highly likely.