Is dominate evil?

[prosfilaes]

I'm a hundred times happier that they have guns than if they had mind-control powers. At least now I can tell whether I'm happy or not.

That's out of the range of the Dominate spell, at least as I read it. They can control your actions, not mess with your emotions.

 

[tuxgeo]

As per the title i would like to see what peoples thoughts are with regards to Charm spells such as dominate.
It doesnt use negative energy so isn't an [evil] spell but would you classify its use as evil
Do you see it as just a spell or is it the equivalent of magical slavery
Also how do you respond to players using them on other players?

First: I'm willing to fear the fish if that is required.

Second: Your use of the square brackets around the word "evil" (to wit, "[evil]") indicates a 3rd-edition perspective -- because 4th-edition uses a comma-delimited list of keywords. Alright, addressing the 3rd-edition situation, the spells having the "[evil]" descriptor are: Level 1, Protection From Good; Level 2, Desecrate; Level 3, Magic Circle Against Good; Level 4, Unholy Blight; Level 5, Dispel Good; Level 6, Create Undead; Level 7, Blasphemy; Level 8, Unholy Aura; and Level 9, Summon Monster IX (when cast as an evil spell only).
As far as I know, no other 3rd-edition spells had the "[evil]" descriptor -- only those 9 spells that formed the clerical spells list for the Evil Domain.

Third: I have just checked the online Compendium, and found that no spells in 4th-edition have the "Evil" keyword.

From the second and third points above, I conclude that the mere fact that Charm spells such as Dominate lack the Evil keyword means nothing: Dominating another can be good if done to prevent greater evil, but is evil if done without extenuating circumstances.
(Yes, this conclusion is based greatly upon my own personal tastes.)

 

[Celebrim]

That's out of the range of the Dominate spell, at least as I read it. They can control your actions, not mess with your emotions.

Yes, but Charm can actually mess with your emotions. The Charm spell causes you to have warm feelings toward the caster, as if they were among your closest friends, and allows that person to persuade you to act in their interests just as you percieved that person to be a loved one for whom you'd act in their interest. In many ways, its a nastier spell and far more open to abuse than Dominate.

A person being Dominated will not act 'naturally', but a person who has been Charmed for the most part will. Dominate destroys a person's will, and with it their initiative and imagination, but Charm leaves these latter largely intact. A person being Dominated isn't really cooperating with its abuser, but a person who is Charmed is actually cooperating in their own abuse. Consider for one thing just how much more emotionally satisfying this is to the abuser. If you combine Charm with the ability to manipulate the subject's memory, like with Modify Memory, then you can really really mess with someone. Not only can you cause them to feel like you are one of their closest friends, but you can implant into them memories of you as one of their closest friends and erase from their memory more recent causes to be suspicious or hostile to you.

And I fully agree with jonesy, I'm far far happier to have the police walking around with loaded guns than I am with the thought of them having mind control devices.

 

[TanithT]

I can't think of a use that wouldn't be evil, or at least neutral.

Really? I can think of several medical uses of the spell that would significantly benefit the patient, as well as the obvious caveat of a good character preventing someone from taking an evil action. ("I'm going to sacrifice this innocent child to my evil demon god!" "Oh no you're not, you're going to protect him from harm.")

I could also see it used effectively for muscle memory training on a willing student, eg, teaching someone to swim by making them do it. Heck, I could even see people paying for the privilege of being Dominated.

Oh wait, that wasn't quite how I meant it to come out. LOL But come to think of it, there could indeed be a few more completely consensual, useful and non evil applications of this spell.

 

[jonesy]

I could also see it used effectively for muscle memory training on a willing student, eg, teaching someone to swim by making them do it. Heck, I could even see people paying for the privilege of being Dominated.

That's actually very inventive. Ok, I take it back, there are good uses too. I didn't think of it from that angle. It would need to be supervised to minimize abuse, but that's not a complaint against the method itself.

 

[Teemu]

If I burn, stab, and electrocute my enemies to death, that can be either evil, neutral, or good, depending on the situation?

But if I take over their minds and force them to leave, causing no physical harm or pain to anyone on either side, that's always evil, or at best neutral?

That's what some folks are saying here if I'm understanding them right.

Also, would incarceration of criminals be considered evil since it takes away their free will?