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Is Drizzt destined to become a Classic?
- Thread starter nikolai
- Start date
Dark Jezter
First Post
John Crichton said:This just proves that I should pay more attention to things. It was hunter1828 who referenced the Demon Wars. I guess I just figured it was you as we typically agree on RAS-related issues.
My apologies to you both. I just remembered hunter being involved in RAS threads before, too.
No apologies necessary.
And I, too, have noticed that we agree on RAS-related issues most of the time. The only major difference in our opinions that I can recall are our feelings on the character of Catti-Brie (you don't mind her, but she annoys me
).Other RAS novels that I think are great are Homeland, The Legacy, Siege of Darkness, and the Icewind Dale trilogy. I've also been very impressed with The Thousand Orcs and The Lone Drow, and either one of those could be a possible addition to this list.
I have mixed feelings on Spine of the World. On one hand it devotes a lot of pages to a boring subplot about a peasent girl and the nobleman who is smitten with her that dosen't seem to go anywhere until the very end of the book. On the other hand, we get to see a different side of Wulfgar. Plus, the character of Morik the Rogue was really cool. I hope we haven't seen the last of him.
The only RAS books that disappointed me were Sojourn, Passage to Dawn, and Sea of Swords. Strangely, all of those are the final books in their respective series. I hope that this tradition dosen't continue with The Two Swords.
I can't believe I missed this my first time through.
Let's see... a reluctant halfling who possesses a powerful magic artifact, a mysterious ranger who knows more than he lets on, a dwarven king seeking to reclaim his lost realm (although this is more of a Hobbit ripoff than LotR), a character who supposedly falls to his death but returns in the next book, a mine full of a rare silvery metal that became inhabited by an evil creature of shadow after the dwarves delved too deep...
Yeah, there are definately parts in The Icewind Dale Trilogy that could be considered Tolkien ripoffs.
Although, to RAS's credit, there aren't many Tolkien ripoffs after that original trilogy.
Dark Jezter
First Post
nikolai said:
I'm guessing Robin Hood.
Funny how Classic is supposed to be some measure of quality but most people dread having to read boring old crap like Fifth Business, and Stone Angle in schools, while millions of people dash out and devour so called "lesser" works enmass.
If you have your objective standards of what makes good writing, and people prefer the 'bad' writing, I think that's a strong indication that your standard's a little hokey. And besides, your standard was just made up by a bunch of old farts with too much time on their hands and enough empty headed people around to listen to them. Didn't it used to be policy that female authors couldn't be considered classic, heck or even write at all?
Also, I'd just like to add that I don't see anything at all wrong with RAS work, of course that's just my opinion, but as has been mentioned earlier, I have never seen any other auther describe action sequences nearly as well. The battles between Artemis and Drizzt are truely memorable and it is for that ability Salvatore has that has made Drizzt what he is today.
Most people remember Drizzt for being hella cool with his scimitars, rather than his introspective teenage elf monologs. (Though I enjoy them aswell)
If you have your objective standards of what makes good writing, and people prefer the 'bad' writing, I think that's a strong indication that your standard's a little hokey. And besides, your standard was just made up by a bunch of old farts with too much time on their hands and enough empty headed people around to listen to them. Didn't it used to be policy that female authors couldn't be considered classic, heck or even write at all?
Also, I'd just like to add that I don't see anything at all wrong with RAS work, of course that's just my opinion, but as has been mentioned earlier, I have never seen any other auther describe action sequences nearly as well. The battles between Artemis and Drizzt are truely memorable and it is for that ability Salvatore has that has made Drizzt what he is today.
Most people remember Drizzt for being hella cool with his scimitars, rather than his introspective teenage elf monologs. (Though I enjoy them aswell)
jeffsforehead
First Post
RA Salvatore vs. Jack Kerouac.
RA Salvatore vs. F. Scott Fitzgerald.
RA Salvatore vs. Ernest Hemingway.
RA Salvatore vs. James Conrad.
RA Salvatore vs. Haruki Murakami.
RA Salvatore vs. David Eggers.
RA Salvatore vs. Emily Bronte.
RA Salvatore vs. William S. Burroughs.
I could go on. There is a great difference between writing and writing. The Drizzt novels will never be classics. I don't believe that you could tell me, with a straight face, that Drizzt is as complex, or well-written, a hero as, say, Jay Gatsby. Or that any of his villians are a Heathcliff.
He doesn't even stand up compared to contemporary authors, such as Murakami. RAS novels will never be taught in schools, they have no literary merit.
Fantasy Genre Trash are the twinkies of the writing world.
RA Salvatore vs. F. Scott Fitzgerald.
RA Salvatore vs. Ernest Hemingway.
RA Salvatore vs. James Conrad.
RA Salvatore vs. Haruki Murakami.
RA Salvatore vs. David Eggers.
RA Salvatore vs. Emily Bronte.
RA Salvatore vs. William S. Burroughs.
I could go on. There is a great difference between writing and writing. The Drizzt novels will never be classics. I don't believe that you could tell me, with a straight face, that Drizzt is as complex, or well-written, a hero as, say, Jay Gatsby. Or that any of his villians are a Heathcliff.
He doesn't even stand up compared to contemporary authors, such as Murakami. RAS novels will never be taught in schools, they have no literary merit.
Fantasy Genre Trash are the twinkies of the writing world.
John Crichton
First Post
Yeah. But based on their own merit, many a twinkie has made many men happy.jeffsforehead said:
Numion
First Post
hunter1828 said:
Yeah, it's pretty funny that according to the internet messageboards:
There were no clone characters before Drizzt
There were no munchkins before D&D 3E
Players didn't complain about too tough encounters before 3E
There was no powergaming before D&D 3E
I seriously think that the collective memory is very very short.
Last edited:
Tsyr
Explorer
Objective standards of good and bad literature are a joke. Plain and simple.
I have to wade through the murky waters of academia on a daily basis, working towards a degree in english literature, and I came to that conclusion after about... oh... three months? Tops?
The amount of times I, or my fellow classmates, have had discussions with various professors that went something like this are too many to easily count:
"This was a good book."
"No, it's bad. See, the author didn't do X, X, and X..."
"But the book was good."
"Yes, but the writing was bad."
"I liked the writing."
"Well you're wrong. It's bad writing."
"Why is it bad?"
"Because it didn't do X, X, and X."
"Why would doing X, X, and X make it better?"
"Because then it would be good writing."
"Why would that make it good writing?"
"Because it did X, X, and X. It doesn't right now."
"But how would doing X, X, and X improve the book?"
"Because then the book would be good writing. Like book B, because it does X, X, and X."
"Book B was boring and the writing had no life to it."
"But it did X, X, and X. It's good writing."
Repeat until someone gets sick of the conversation.
To me, there is exactly one acid test of good writing: Does it endure. Anything else is subjective. It's just like these "These movies are good" lists magazines publish... I have a friend who swears that if you don't like movies on that list, you are simply, objectivly, wrong for not liking them. Hogswash. It's opinion. Maybe a guideline at best. Not immutable law.
I have to wade through the murky waters of academia on a daily basis, working towards a degree in english literature, and I came to that conclusion after about... oh... three months? Tops?
The amount of times I, or my fellow classmates, have had discussions with various professors that went something like this are too many to easily count:
"This was a good book."
"No, it's bad. See, the author didn't do X, X, and X..."
"But the book was good."
"Yes, but the writing was bad."
"I liked the writing."
"Well you're wrong. It's bad writing."
"Why is it bad?"
"Because it didn't do X, X, and X."
"Why would doing X, X, and X make it better?"
"Because then it would be good writing."
"Why would that make it good writing?"
"Because it did X, X, and X. It doesn't right now."
"But how would doing X, X, and X improve the book?"
"Because then the book would be good writing. Like book B, because it does X, X, and X."
"Book B was boring and the writing had no life to it."
"But it did X, X, and X. It's good writing."
Repeat until someone gets sick of the conversation.
To me, there is exactly one acid test of good writing: Does it endure. Anything else is subjective. It's just like these "These movies are good" lists magazines publish... I have a friend who swears that if you don't like movies on that list, you are simply, objectivly, wrong for not liking them. Hogswash. It's opinion. Maybe a guideline at best. Not immutable law.
