is Dungeons and Dragons still Lame

The thing to remember is that, at it's core, D&D is sitting in a room for four hours with some friends pretending to be elves and knights and fighting dragons.

That is, essentially, not very cool, in a pop-culture sense. It's not stylish, it doesn't look good, it has no flash-bang appeal, the subject matter is esoteric at best, no one is having sex, you don't get to see the violence, and it relies on clever use of words and mathematics.

YAWN.

But, D&D will always have a hook into the "intelligent person", and more and more it seems that such a person is as accepted as any other fan out there.

Sports fans are mocked mercilessly for rituals, facepaint, over-jocularity.

Fans of high fashion are mocked for vapidity, absurdity, and a general lack of morals.

D&D is just another fandom, no more or less accepted than any other pursuit out there. Or, at least, it's growing into that, as fantasy becomes more and more a staple part of general pop culture and less pigeonholed. Now, you mention dragons and wizards, people have two or three different reference points for it.

I don't think 4e will particularly capitalize on the fantasy zeitgeist. I don't think WotC is ready for it -- they can't leverage known brands (HP, LotR, WoW) into something that's more than just a game, they can't create their own brands with the game alone (novels and movies and videogames based on the game might do that, but these all have a reputation for not being very high-quality accross the board). They can probably make a damn good game, but they're kind of incapable of coming out of that shell.

The best that D&D can do is tell it's stories in other media, and WotC is sorely unprepared to do so in a way that consistently and admirably demonstrates quality in that media. The best they've done is genre fiction with RA Salvatore's books, but that, in and of itself, is no greater accomplishment than Nora Roberts, and not quite as much as Dan Brown or even Douglas Adams.

D&D, as a game, will never be a pop culture sensation. It's requirements of sitting in a room for four hours straight with four friends just make it generally impractical when people have other stuff they could be doing with their day.

Oddly enough, I think that's why D&D gains the most popularity in middle school and high school, and why that's it's strongest audience. I also think that's part of what will keep it in the pop culture ghetto: the nerds will play it instead of other extracirriculars, and while the guy who goes out for football or the girl who learns to play the guitar are participating in a great cultural moment, the D&D player isn't.

So until America becomes a nation who can sit down in a room for four hours once a week and pretend to be elves and knights, it won't ever not be lame. It might be LESS lame, but really, it's a niche appeal.
 

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Rechan said:
Inside the Geek umbrella (and under the gamer umbrella), all sides sneer at other sides. When I say "Furry", do you not roll your eyes and sigh? When I say the words "LARP", do you not snicker? Do you not think of pasty frufru goths dressing up and passing notes in a playground at night? There's feuds and stereotypes between geeks, and between gamers.
Could this be because these groups have nothing in common other than all having an odd hobby. Other than that what do these different geeks have in common?


In response to the OP:
All hobbies are equally lame for the most part, they all seek merely to provide pleasure and fill time.

Also could your older brother think D&D is lame simply because you, his younger brother, plays it? I know I'm guilty of prejudice like that against my younger brother.
 

Aust Diamondew said:
Could this be because these groups have nothing in common other than all having an odd hobby. Other than that what do these different geeks have in common?
Last I checked, LARPs are still gaming. Just that instead of sitting at a table, they're standing up and dressed for the occasion.

All the listed geek fandoms exercise imagination and roleplaying, just under different manners.
 

Rechan said:
4e will possibly do what 3e did: bring into the fold the people who had stopped gaming 2e, and had drifted off. It might alienate some of those people. But it also might attract more young crowds, with shiny, cool stuff.

And then it'll kill those young crowds and take their stuff!!!!
 

Don't worry about it.
D&D is already cooler than MMORPGs.
MMORPGs are mainstream now, and mainstream is never cool.
Anyone who doesn't know this is too mainstream, and therefore uncool themselves.
 

Kamikaze Midget said:
But, D&D will always have a hook into the "intelligent person", and more and more it seems that such a person is as accepted as any other fan out there.

Not if about 80% of the posters on the WoTC forums are anything to go by :lol:

And to the OP, no, 4ed will not change anything about the coolness factor of DnD - it will still be a geek thing.
 

The critical part you're missing:

Your brother said he would be there at the appointed time.
He didn't show up at that time.
He didn't call to say he wasn't going to be there.
When you called him to ask where he was, probably indicating that other people were waiting on him, he didn't apologize. Instead, he insulted you.

Verdict: your brother is lame. His opinion is utterly worthless. Seriously.
 

I have learned to embrace my inner nerd. Unless society stops producing nerds, there will always be a market for the game we love. ;)


Also... I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. Don't let the perceptions of other people dictate what you think is cool. If you think that pretending you're an elf, or a knight, or a Gestalt Shadow Dragon is cool, then it is!


Merry Xmas TarionzCousin!
 

Some people, such as your brother, will always think D&D is lame, whether it's fear of geek-ridicule or just find the concept unappealing. I myself think most of popular sports (baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer) are lame.

None of this, of course, makes it so.

My boss spouts geek ridicule in my direction regularly. I, in return, mock his sports-logorrhea. We would never consider trying each others' hobbies.

It's just the nature of humans to conflict on what is considered "good."


WotC is trying a risk-venture, by offering a "streamlined" game with a "modern" playstyle to capture a broader fandom demographic. The crowd they want may exist, but even if so, they won't appeal to everyone.


Oh... and I agree with TarionzCousin's evaluation. That's cold-hearted rudeness.
 
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No.

Not until some money is spent advertising it in places where people who aren't already the target audience can be exposed to it.

4e or 10e will not change that.
 

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