is Dungeons and Dragons still Lame

[BadMojo]

In fact, the vast majority of people with money and power (which is generally far more important that "coolness" in the real world, are by definition not cool since they're usually old and too busy accruing said money and power to be "cool."

Even those with money and power crave "cool". Watch one episode of "Real Housewives of Orange County" if you can bear it. "Being cool" has resulted in lots of really goofy rich dudes wearing clothes that someone half their age *might* be able to pull off and has driven sales of Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini and tons of other high end sports car brands for decades. Oh, and don't forget paying for the privelege to inject botulin toxin in to your face.

At any rate, I think the only way MMORPG's aren't considered "geeky" would be if some of the "frat guys playing Madden" image rubbed off on all video games in general.

Having said all that, I feel extra lame today for having posted this.

 

[SteveC]

Eh, this whole thread is lame, but I can't help chiming in.

IMHO, the definition of "cool" and "lame" that's being used here is so narrow and shallow that the vast majority of people are lame.

Real life is far more complicated than being able to sort people into two simple categories of "lame" and "cool." In fact, the vast majority of people with money and power (which is generally far more important that "coolness" in the real world, are by definition not cool since they're usually old and too busy accruing said money and power to be "cool."

Actually, you have a very good point, and it allows me to tell another story, so that's (hopefully ) good.

There is this game store in London called Game's Plus, and it is right across the street from the British Museum, in what I would assume to be a very high-rent area. A few years ago I stopped in and there was this woman working there who was absolutely gorgeous, and also really knew her gaming stuff.

Well coming from the States, this sort of thing is very unusual: both to have a game store in an expensive retail area, and also to have absolutely gorgeous women working there who are also gamers. I talked with her for a bit, and then I said that in the US gaming was considered something of a fringe hobby, and that the people who were involved with it were thought of as extremely odd. I remarked that it was great to see things were different in England.

Well, of course, she told me that things weren't different. The thing was, and I will never forget how she said this, that if you don't have something distinct, different, and just plain odd about you, you're likely to be the sort of person who's is actually a mass murderer and has people chained up in the cellar.

And that stuck with me: we all have something that's different and odd about it, and I've found that the people who seem to have the least of it are actually dealing with the biggest issues.

So whenever someone tries to tell me that I'm somehow "uncool" for gaming, I can always tell them that at least I don't have people locked up in my cellar, do you?

--Steve

 

[Moon-Lancer]

is Dungeons and Dragons still Lame?

well yes. it is. their will still be too much d&d'ism that will turn people off.

D&D little issue with names that I think if they addressed, could help to a appeal to new players.

 

[Umbran]

Can 4e's new changes be enough to change public perception? Even among other geeks?

No, because the details of the rules have very little to do with how the activity is perceived. It doesn't matter how the skills or powers are structured - the act of sitting in a room playing make believe is not going to be considered cool by the majority of folks. Period. End of discussion. Even among geeks? Again, no. The details are pretty unimportant.

For ease, I'll take an example from this very thread: up above, Rechan mentions a stereotype of SCA fighting, "the SCA 'I use foam weapons to beat my friends up, drink beer and yell about wenches' guy".

Let us note that SCA weapons are not foam, nor even padded. They are, for our intents, solid chunks of wood. In terms of how you think about the SCA overall, does the difference between whacking each other with foam or with the equivalent of baseball bats matter much?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The other day was the last day I figure I'd ask him to sit in our game. I invited him over and he said he'd try it out. After he didn't show, I called him an hour into game to see what happened. His response

Dungeons and Dragons is lame and it always will be. No matter what they do to it normal people aren't going to play the game because it has changed a few things.

I almost hate to say this as someone who's been playing role-playing games for well over 20 years, but your brother?

He's absolutely right.

It will never be cool to play D&D. It's branded as a nerd / geek hobby and that brand's gonna stick until the world ends. Also, alot of people who play D&D and other role-playing games arent helping to alter that image AT ALL. I like having relatively normal, balanced people in my groups so that when I'm trying to introduce the average person to the hobby it doesnt look like Nerdapalooza.

And let's not get it twisted. There is no overall nerd acceptance, there is nerd TOLERANCE. Just because it's looking like nerds are ruling the world right now doesn't mean that people LIKE nerds. It helps to be a decent human being first...

I play role-playing games, I still read comic books and I still play video games. But aside from my glasses, most people cant read me for nerd plauge right off the bat. I know this becasue I've asked people who've gotten to know me after the fact if they thought that I was into all the stuff that I was into. Personally I hate nerds or I should say a specific type of nerd. The one that relishes pedantry and the need to make themselves feel smarter at the expense of others. Guess what wisenheimer? When you make fun of the "stooopid" jock, youre no better than he is for making fun of you for being a nerd. Sad to say there are quite a few of this kind of nerd on this board as well.


Anyway to get back on point, no edition change is going make D&D less nerdy.

You know, unless it's an actual video game.

 

[Jack99]

In lutherian scandinavia, maybe in the middle-east and in the west of canada, but not elsewhere.

O'really? Considering I live there, I find that interesting. I must have missed it, 'cause I never heard of such thing. Do you have a link to something, I would love to read about it.

 

[billd91]

I can't help but laugh at someone who plays an online RPG-style game but looks down on table-top RPGs as uncool. I can't help but laugh in that person's face. There's just no two ways about it, neither is cool in any way shape or form to society at large.

But who cares? Coolness always had more to do with attitude than mainstream anyway. Cool doesn't care what other people think. If cool were worried about appearing lame, cool would be lame. There's nothing lamer than people trying to avoid being lame by trying to be "cool".

 

[The Ubbergeek]

O'really? Considering I live there, I find that interesting. I must have missed it, 'cause I never heard of such thing. Do you have a link to something, I would love to read about it.

As far I know (talking daily with a swede), it's the leading christian denomination of Scandinavia (including finland). or so I think I remember, and the stereotypical, religious conservatives there are the lutherian pastor and his crowd.

If I'm wrong, well... *shrugs*

 

[Clavis]

My personal experience with D&D's social perception come from being around the late 80s/early 90s metal scene. There, it seemed like every male also played D&D, and as long as your primary social interaction was with those same people, there was no stigma attached to the game at all. Many of us were quite scary and imposing looking, and could hold our own in a fight. So, we didn't have to deal with getting picked on for being D&D players.

Of course, a lot of Jack Chick's nightmares came true in that social scene. There was a lot of drugs and sex (albeit most of it with the same few girls), and a certain level of general juvenile delinquency. Some of the kids we knew were best described as criminals. Many of us really were deeply interested in the occult, and I got away with being in Honors classes because it meant I also knew stuff about Satan and was smart enough to DM.

A huge percentage of that scene left D&D during the 90s, after TSR caved in to the anti-D&D crowd and took all the adult and occult themes out of the books. Many drifted into Vampire (so they could play with their Goth girlfriends).

When D&D lost its dangerous and anti-social image, all that was left was a nerdy/geeky one. I don't think that's changing soon. I do think, however, that the inclusion of the Tiefling and the Warlock as core parts of the rules is an attempt to bring back that same disaffected metalhead demographic.

 

[Jack99]

As far I know (talking daily with a swede), it's the leading christian denomination of Scandinavia (including finland). or so I think I remember, and the stereotypical, religious conservatives there are the lutherian pastor and his crowd.

If I'm wrong, well... *shrugs*

hehe... No, ofc they are lutherians.. well most of them anyway. I meant regarding the whole anti-dnd movement you mentioned that we had had. That was what I had never experienced.