D&D 4E Is Essentials Compatible with Old School 4ed?

[Pickles JG]

It is not compatible in a couple of cases.

You cannot use some of the abilities of the new class builds with the old ones & vice versa, just like you can't use monk powers with fighters.

Some of the feats have been updated & this has not been input into character builder (grr) so if you use this tool you might want to make manual adjustments/add notes.

I do not think either of these are well expressed in the rules. You have to know which feats have been upgraded & yes they are feat tax feats but the upgrades compensate for that with a tax rebate- they give you choice & customisation back. The rules for varying even slightly from the essentials builds are mostly absent but played straight they work.

It's totally compatible in play.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yes, 100% compatible.

See comments below.

Easy. You take a multiclass feat. You do not take two of the Power Swap feats because they are useless for you (lacking daily and encounter powers that can be swapped). Just like you wouldn't take any feats that deal with Power Points or anything like that when you don't have Power Points.

Not a good example. It is possible to get power points simply by multiclassing. You cannot get the essentials stuff that way.

Anyway, multiclassing and hybrids are against the spirit of the Essentials Martial builds: to provide simple classes.

Not the point. The question is are they compatible.

Easy. They don't. At-will stances are explicit about only working with melee basic attacks. As most at-will attack powers are not melee basic attacks, they do not benefit from the stances.

So they are not 100% compatible.

I like to assume that most DMs can read the rules and understand how they work. But then again, that's because I'm a DM and don't get confused when my players ask simple questions about clear rules.

I see a lots of ifs ands and buts in your argument they are 100% compatible. Obviously it is not a simple question.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Double post

 

[Atomo]

A minor issue... If an Essential class uses themes (a la Dark Sun), just the free encounter power at the first level will be the option to her... Except for the mage, most Essential classes have not encounter or daily attack powers to have the "choose from theme instead" option.

For my homebrew campaign setting, I and my players created themes to represent certain elements of the world that would not very well represented by backgrounds. Sure, an extra encounter for free is always good and an excelent reason to take a theme anyway, but it is a pity that really fun powers from the themes have a level and certain Essential classes cannot do use of them...

However as I said, not a big issue after all. Perhaps a feat to "gain a theme power" can solve that.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Not a good example. It is possible to get power points simply by multiclassing. You cannot get the essentials stuff that way.

Not yet. Just like you couldn't multiclass into psionic classes and get power points before the rules for that were published. It happened to be done in the very same book psionics where first published, but that's all. You still needed explicit rules on it.

You couldn't Hybridize Assassins before there was a Dragon article on how to do it. Does that mean Assassins are not compatible with "Old School" 4Ed? Or they were incompatible, but now are again? Doesn't the same then apply to Essential classes?

So they are not 100% compatible.

Why? Is Charge incompatible with D&D Core Rules because it only allows basic melee attacks and most powers aren't?
If a power says it's a melee basic attack, or counts as such under certain circustmances, it would work with the Essential stances (if such circumstances apply). But if a power isn't a basic attack, it doesn't. That's just a typical example of 4E core rules at work!

 

[Scribble]

So they are not 100% compatible.

They are- You don't have to convert anything to make the two elements work together.

We just currently lack certain rules more advanced players want. (Such as complete multi-classing rules.)


Would you say the Essentials Fighter is not compatible with the Essentials Thief? We also lack multi-classing rules between the two of them.

 

[Raikun]

Whether or not each class is intended to be multiclassed with each other is an entirely different question than whether or not 4e and essentials is all compatible.

Fact is, 4e and Essentials *are* 100% compatible. Essentials is just a marketing term after all...they could have released the new builds as PHB4, and the Monster Vault as MM4, etc if they wanted.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Not being able to multi-class or hybrid doesn't create a compatibility issue. All it means is that those options are not currently/fully available to those classes.

 

[MrMyth]

To chime in with the rest: Yes, the rules are 100% compatible with all existing 4E rules. Some of the new builds are more limited than existing ones in terms of how they can multiclass. Similarly, they do not yet have options for being used with the hybrid class rules. But none of this indicates a lack of compatability, just a lack of options - one that will be addressed within a few months. Every single actual rules question that Dice4Hire has presented is addressed by the current rules.

 

[Nichwee]

I finely worked out what this question felt like to me. I feel the question in this thread title is like asking the following:

"Is Physics compatible with Higher Education?"

Of course it is - it is an example of such.

Will it restrict other choices?
Yes - some of your powers/options are restricted by choosing an Essensials Class, just like you don't expect a Physics Degree to help qualify for something that asks for a "Degree in Media Studies" or the fact that taking 'Physics with Astrophysics' (Knight vs PHB1 Fighter) would restrict your choice of topics to study in your third year as you would be forced to take at least some Astrophysics choices.

Are Essensials classes able to be taken with every other option available (Hybrids/MC)?
Not yet, just like sometimes trying to take a particular choice of degree options can cause your timetable to be unworkable. But give the profs some time and they may sort your timetable out for you (ala Class Compedium).

Do you have to avoid all Essensials classes to play with a PHB# class player?
No, no more than a person taking Physics needs to find a different university from their friend who decides to take English. You both do different stuff and get different options but you can hang out fine and the school rules still aplly to both of you where applicable.