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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9500624" data-attributes="member: 7030563">As long as you are in combat with them they succeed on the save, even if they are a humanoid.The DC for Charm Person and the DC for Beguiling Twist are the same (as is the DC for Friends if you have that on Wisdom).Charm Person is not very good to use in combat and it is not generally good to use with Beguiling Twist.  The main problem with Charm Person is a hostile act cancels it, meaning there is no chaining it on Beguiling Twist with a downstream save.  It is just over.  The Charm effect from a Summoned Fey is much better and is the conrnerstone of a Fey Wanderer in terms of a Trigger that the Ranger himself can generate. Cause Fear (2014 rules) or Wrathful Smite (2024 Rules) is what you want to use as far as 1st level spells to work with BT, but they are not on the Ranger or Fey Wanderer lists.    The PC I am talking about has WS from Shadow Touched feat.  I have toyed with the idea of changing the Wizard 1st level spell from Shield to Cause Fear as well, but I have not done that yet.Frightened from Beguiling Twist is better than just about any other save or suck 1st or 2nd level spell for a couple reasons.  First it is concentration free.  Second it is not canceled by combat.  The only other spell I can think of that is similar in both these respects is the 2024 version of Wrathful Smite.  Also BT does not end with a successful save, it just retriggers your reaction to use BT again and move it to a different enemy.</blockquote>

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