Is Hackmaster a joke?

[Alzrius]

It's like Dragonball Z. I could never get into it because there's just so much out there. What is it now, 27 films?
And once I start collecting a series, I'm absolutly lost untill I get the entire thing.

I'm the same way dude, I feel your pain.

Being a DBZ fan, there are a few things you can do:

You can just start with the DVDs/VHS tapes (The DVDs are the best bet IMHO, and in a year or two theyre being re-dubbed). The tape you want to start with is "Arrival" in the Saiyan saga. If you look at the back, it should mention the episode numbers, so look for 1.

Alternately, you could start reading the manga, available in english (and the translations are pretty good, despite what some people may say). The graphic novels are conveniently and easily labelled, and should be in your local comic shop. Just look for number 1.

You may hear some stuff about how Dragonball is the predecessor to Dragonball Z. That's true. Dragonaball is the story of the heroes of Dragonball Z when they were younger (and Dragonball was produced and written first), and takes place before Dragonball Z. However, it isn't necessary to buy the DVDs or read the manga of that series to get into DBZ.

As for the movies, there are 13 (and an unnumbered "lost" movie). However, the movies exist outside the storyline in the anime/manga series. They're more like OAVs, being independent of the story and having no real spoilers. The only thing they directly build off of is each other, and even that doesn't happen a lot (movie 6 is sequel to 5, for example, and 8, 9, and 11 are sequential). You can watch pretty much any of them and it won't give anything away.

There are two non-movie "specials" also that are DVD/video only. Both of these are also independent of the main storyline, with one being the tale of Goku's father, and the other being an alternate timeline where Goku died.

Hope that helps!

 

[Legba]

I would just get the TV series for starters.

Yeah, ok. I know I saw the boxed set of Slayers somewhere... maybe it won't cost me an arm and a leg this time. (Though I've got Season 1 of Farscape listed on my "To Buy" list...)


Emanuel

 

[rounser]

To save time and banality, here's a template for the Hackmaster-hating 3E fans.

Check all that apply:

1) Being a flavour of D&D, it's a very close, directly comparable competitor to a game which I'm a strong supporter of, and so, logically, to build up that which I'm a strong supporter of, I need to rubbish this competitor.

2) I'm worried that these people are having more fun with their flavour of D&D than I do with mine. I need to prove to myself and others that this is not the case.

3) To prove that it's bad, I retread the same territory that others fishing around for a reason to hate it have (roll d4):
1) I'm too blinkered to see how it's different from 1E, and so I'll state that if I wanted to play 1E I'd just play that.
2) It has humour elements, so therefore, logically, the entire game must be a joke, and therefore, logically, worthless for serious roleplaying.
3) The monster books cost too much, so I'll imply that the game itself is flawed and not worth playing even if you happened to buy those books.
4) I assume that because it has parody elements that the game is insulting to the memory of D&D. Of course, I am oblivious to the level of respect and homage to D&D's traditional idiosyncracies that Hackmaster practically drips with.

 

[Legba]

You can just start with the DVDs/VHS tapes (The DVDs are the best bet IMHO, and in a year or two theyre being re-dubbed). The tape you want to start with is "Arrival" in the Saiyan saga. If you look at the back, it should mention the episode numbers, so look for 1.

Oh, I'd definatly go for the DVD's. DVD only, here.

The problem is, any series of more than 8 DVD's daunt me. And looking up at the shelves at the video store, there's about 20. That's one DVD per paycheck for the next 10 months... (I'm currently being payed every second week.) And I realy want to see something else than just one series for the next year or so. *sigh*

Pluss, you hear so much crap about Dragonball Z all over the place, I'm thinking I should rather go with a series that people keep telling me is good, and that I've seen some of. (Like Cowboy Bebop. Which rocks, by the way.)

So far, I've got, as far as series go:

Neon Evangelion Genesis (pluss Death & Rebirth, which sucked wind)
Record of Lodoss War (I'm thinking of getting the OVA)
& Bubblegum Crissis MegaTokyo 2040

I've also got a little collection of films, most of which are very good. (Anyone else seen Blue? Jikes.)


Emanuel

 

[Legba]

*cough* Getting back on topic here...

They've put out a One-book Monster Manual now, with the most usual monsters. So that should be good for anyone who's daunted by the cost of the Hacklopedias. The game itself is very good, with perhaps a bit much for me as a GM to keep track of, but that's a minor quible, and one easily overcome with practice, I'm sure. The joke elements that seem to put so many people off, I find make the books a better read, and make it easier to read without falling asleep.

But that's just my two cents.


Emanuel

 

[Alzrius]

Plus, you hear so much crap about Dragonball Z all over the place

Grrr, I know, and that bothers me. It's a good show! "Crap" anime doesn't get over a steady decade of success and such critical acclaim. The reason its looked down upon is typical of why western people don't fully appreciate anime. What's sad is that the misunderstanding of DBZ is one that affects people who usually think they're knowledgeable about anime, meaning that they're biased opinion tends to spread further than it should. Just because the show has high violent content and battles that last many episodes does not make it a bad show. People say it has no depth or plot. That's not true, it has a lot of both, it simply mixes that in with a healthy dose of action. It has depth to it, and a true epic saga of a plot that is worth of the greatest of campaigns. No story I've ever seen realistically deals with so many characters of such incredibly high levels of power.

I'm thinking I should rather go with a series that people keep telling me is good, and that I've seen some of. (Like Cowboy Bebop. Which rocks, by the way.)

So far, I've got, as far as series go:

Neon Evangelion Genesis (plus Death & Rebirth, which sucked wind)
Record of Lodoss War (I'm thinking of getting the OVA)
& Bubblegum Crissis MegaTokyo 2040

I've also got a little collection of films, most of which are very good. (Anyone else seen Blue? Jikes.)

My advice is not to rely so much on what people tell you. Try and go for a less biased review, or just try and catch some of the show yourself and form your own opinions. You can find people who'll tell you anything depending on where you look. I'm majoring in Japanese Studies, specifically Japanese culture as seen through anime, and I think DBZ is one of the best anime out there right now.

Btw, by Blue, do you mean Perfect Blue? Because that movie was a serious mind-trip.

 

[Legba]

Yeah, do'h. Perfect Blue. That film was just freaky.

There's this anime thingy that goes every friday, where you can come in and watch 3 hours of anime shows. That's where I picked up on Cowboy Bebop, by the way. And they keep showing Macross, which not a lot of people bother to see, but which sometimes is pretty funny. (Especialy when the main character says -- with a straight face -- that a womans place is in the kitchen. That got quite a few laughs.)

Which reminds me of another kick-ass anime I just saw. It's called Porko Rosso. Go see. Very good.


Emanuel

 

[Dinkeldog]

The other Hackmaster thread just went down in flames. We're going to try not to let that happen here.

Camp 1, people that are getting defensive over their love of Hackmaster, take a step back.

Camp 2, people that look down on Hackmaster, take a step back.

Camps 1 and 2 are kindly asked to avoid posting to the thread while they're quite so defensive or elitist.

Camp 3, everyone looking to find more info about HM can stick around with Camp 4, those wishing to enlighten respectfully.

People just wanting to fight over the topic should report to either Nutkinland or Dragonsfoot's EditionWars forum.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

Oh, and Camp 5, the anime crowd--you could start a thread of your own in the appropriate forum and quit hijacking this one.

 

[Legba]

I know, I know... I try to hang onto camp 4, but every time someone mentions an anime... I get sidetracked. *sigh*


Emanuel

 

[Enceladus]

No I don't think its a joke..

I found a PHB over my xmas break for 15 bucks at a used book store. I don't think its a joke but it reminds me of why I left 1E/2E behind. It's actually no different than 1E in many respects. Central casting (for roleplaying character developement) from 1E can be pulled over to 3rd, and has been successfully. If anyone goes back that far and knows what the hell I'm talking about.

It tries to defend its own rules on several occasions. It responds to its critics in several places. Why?

I see no reason to use it. One because I'm underwhelmed by it all. Two because it means I would have to teach my group how to play a new ruleset and have them buy a whole bunch more books. Three, I like 3E better.