Is Hackmaster a joke?

[Legba]

Re: No I don't think its a joke..

It tries to defend its own rules on several occasions. It responds to its critics in several places. Why?

Now that's part of the joke. One that even a few HackMaster fans feels it could have done without. Personaly, I just think it's fun to read. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Unless you want to. Because you can.

I see no reason to use it. One because I'm underwhelmed by it all.

Not realy a lot to say on that one...

Two because it means I would have to teach my group how to play a new ruleset and have them buy a whole bunch more books.

Now there's the problem I had with my friends. Sollution? Play up the similarities to 1st/2nd edition. Since they've all played those games, I suggested it might be fun to go back and reminecense. And it worked. They didn't realy have to learn any huge new rules. I just had to guide them through character creation and explain a few new rules as they apeared, and they were set. It helped that I worked rather lightly on the new rules and played up other parts to make them clear, like the Honour rules, which, in my opinion, kick ass.

Three, I like 3E better.

See my reply to one.


Emanuel

 

[Numion]

To save time and banality, here's a template for the Hackmaster-hating 3E fans.

I don't hate HM.

It's just that it's derivative of obsolete version of this game, and thus of no interest to me. It just doesn't interest me.

And now whats with the HM crowd dogging 3e fans to somehow recognize this bastard son of D&D as "official"? What would be the great advantage if all ENWorlders suddenly, really, got to know the HackMaster for what it really is in your opinion? 3e would still be their preferred game, because we probably are the part of D&D players that were quick to adopt 3e over all the 1eisms of previous editions (which, BTW, even you agree still exist in HM).

It's all quite futile. You've got your HM boards and we got our 3e boards. Why try to preach your gospel here? Just play the game and don't care what others think of it..

 

[Legba]

I don't hate HM.

It's just that it's derivative of obsolete version of this game, and thus of no interest to me. It just doesn't interest me.

Although I can't do much about a lack of intrest (unless I start working for TVshop or something, in which case I'll be forced to), I can wonder at your description of 1st/2nd ed. as obsolete. Obsolete, by definition, means that there's no use for the system, and I'm sure there are several roleplayers out there who'd disagree with you. Like it or not, 3rd edition has a distinct feel to it, seperate to the previous editions. And some people prefer those old feels, which HackMaster does a very good job of tapping into. In the end, if 1st/2nd edition had been obsolete, then there would be no market for HackMaster, and it'd never have been as popular as it is. Nowhere near as popular as the d20 system to be sure, but still a good sized market. After all, it was voted game of the year.

And now whats with the HM crowd dogging 3e fans to somehow recognize this bastard son of D&D as "official"? What would be the great advantage if all ENWorlders suddenly, really, got to know the HackMaster for what it really is in your opinion? 3e would still be their preferred game, because we probably are the part of D&D players that were quick to adopt 3e over all the 1eisms of previous editions (which, BTW, even you agree still exist in HM).

Again, I'd disagree with your terming HackMaster as a "bastard son". HackMaster is what 3rd edition could have been if it hadn't spun of into a new direction. Mind you, I'm not arguing about the fact that you'd still prefer 3rd edition -- that's a personal preference, of course -- but I do think that if people 'got' HackMaster, they wouldn't be as quick to shoot it down all the time. Maybe they'd even play it once or twice. And playing a new game can never be a bad thing.

It's all quite futile. You've got your HM boards and we got our 3e boards. Why try to preach your gospel here? Just play the game and don't care what others think of it..

Who's preaching gospel? I, for one, am only trying to losen some of the inherent resentment against HackMaster. On the other hand, that sounds like something a religious person would say, doesn't it?

But seriously, there's a lot of resentment against HackMaster, and most of it comes from people who've never even given it a spin. That sounds a bit unfair to me. It's like people condeming 3rd edition without playing it. Not very nice, and it eventualy stirs up a flame war. And I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't like that much, either.


Emanuel

 

[Numion]

Who's preaching gospel? I, for one, am only trying to losen some of the inherent resentment against HackMaster. On the other hand, that sounds like something a religious person would say, doesn't it?

On this same thread I've been insulted as mindless sheep for my choice of game. Someone thought if only I had tried HM, I would've seen the light and no longer be a sheep, and like the game, which is superior to 3e anyway.

Then I'd just be an another kind of sheep, now wouldn't I?

That was my thought here. Utter pointlessness of this all. HM fans come here preaching the game, acting like we owe them something (a spin of the game, perhaps ), then insulting when people say they're not really intrested. All for a game.

Of course bandwith is free and all that, but don't expect me to be especially happy to be preached to and insulted.

 

[Numion]

Obsolete, by definition, means that there's no use for the system, and I'm sure there are several roleplayers out there who'd disagree with you.

My bad. I thought it meant something else; english is not my native tongue. I meant with obsolete that it's quite useless to me and my gaming group. I couldn't get them to play 1e/2e even if I paid. Coming from WHFRP and Rolemaster circles, all those 1e can't do's rub us just completely the wrong way.

 

[Outlaw]

I go to bed for the night and look what happens!

On this same thread I've been insulted as mindless sheep for my choice of game. Someone thought if only I had tried HM, I would've seen the light and no longer be a sheep, and like the game, which is superior to 3e anyway

Well, if you want to go back, all those posts were made by the same person who should have known better. So ignoring Buddha's remarks, I hope we can continue on with a civil conversation.

Now, why would I talk about Hackmaster on ENworld when there are the Hackmaster boards at KenzerCo? Well, my motivation was simple. I read, once again, that Hackmaster was a joke. Rather than trying to refute the comment in every thread I read it in, I thought I'd start a thread where we could all talk about it. Whether or not this garners interest in the game, I hope perhaps that the light in which it is seen might become more favorable.

And for the record, I'm a 3e player. I play Hackmaster every other week. I play Vampire every other week. I play multiple 3e games every week as well as being a director for the Living Kingdoms of Kalamar 3e campaign setting. My preference is clear. But, that doesn't mean I only play one game system. I play three and enjoy all of them very much. For those people who like to try out different games and have been resisting Hackmaster because they're worried it'll be a joke and become a waste of money, I'd like to assure them that it won't be.

As for attitudes, I don't think ENworlders are sheep, because of been hanging out here more often lately and I'm not a sheep. I also don't think 3e players are idiots, because I am one (ironically so is Buddha) and I know I'm not an idiot. ...I don't know about anime, but how about we ignore that minor flamestrike and carry on a discussion. That's why this thread was started for in the first place.


Oh! And as for Hackmaster players staying at their boards, the KenzerCo forums are split into many categories, including one for the Kingdoms of Kalamar 3e setting. So, there's a lot more to offer there than just Hackmaster.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Re: I go to bed for the night and look what happens!

For those people who like to try out different games and have been resisting Hackmaster because they're worried it'll be a joke and become a waste of money, I'd like to assure them that it won't be.

Well, almost any game can be played from silly to serious, but I think this argument is rather silly.

The game is based off a humor comic book. It describes itself as the following: "It’s all about killing and breaking things in this hilarious, yet fully playable RPG of mad sorcerers, armies of orcs and wicked weapons."

I have no doubt the came is playable, but it clearly falls into a spot right next to Toon. If you make it into a serious game, then that is great- but it is what it is.

SD

 

[Legba]

Re: Re: I go to bed for the night and look what happens!

The game is based off a humor comic book.

Actualy, the game is based off AD&D 1st/2nd edition. It takes it's name from the game of the same name is KoDT, but the HackMaster featured in KoDT is essentialy AD&D anyway.

It describes itself as the following: "It’s all about killing and breaking things in this hilarious, yet fully playable RPG of mad sorcerers, armies of orcs and wicked weapons."

Empathis on "fully playable RPG". That statement is made in the vein of the 'old school' joke, though. As I said, even some fans of the game thinks some of that humour hurts the way the game is viewed.

I have no doubt the came is playable, but it clearly falls into a spot right next to Toon. If you make it into a serious game, then that is great- but it is what it is.

What we're trying to say here is exactly that: It doesn't fall into a spot right next to Toon. Toon is about silly cartoon creatures who parade around in a rules-light system of wacky antics. HackMaster, on the other hand, captures the feeling of pre-d20 D&D perfectly, and then adds to it. Besides, it's quite heavy-handed on the rules (although not as bad as RoleMaster -- or so I'm told.) It does have some less serious areas (a few of the spells and monsters), but those are in a distinct minority (we're talking one or two per HoB, and maybe a few of the spells in the SSG), and can be easily ignored by anyone playing the game.

In the end, HackMaster can be played just as silly or serious as you would have played a game of OAD&D, but it lends itself distinctly more towards roleplaying (in whatever form) than any other incarnation of D&D.

Like I said before, I play in 3 (soon to be 4) campaigns, and they're all serious campaigns. I have yet to see a single 'straight comedy' element in any of them.


Emanuel

 

[thegreatbuddha]

Wow. I don't think words can describe how low I feel right now. My comments weren't called for, and I humbly apologize for everything I've said on this thread.

Sorry.

 

[Redleg06]

I have not read the entire thread, but if you read KODT, then you get the "Hackmaster Joke". If not, then it is simply an overly detailed role-playing game!