D&D 4E Is infiltration/misdirection possible in 4E?

[Saeviomagy]

Previously infiltration at all but the lowest levels in D&D ran like this
1. Get some info by using divination magic
2. Break into the place (or schmooze into the place) using some magic
3. Sneak around the place using magic
4. Leave the place using magic

Typically your heaviest opposition would be... magic.

It was pretty heavily biased against anyone who didn't use magic.

Infiltration in D&D has now moved somewhat closer to infiltration in a game like shadowrun.
1. Get some info by using skills
2. Break into the place (or schmooze into the place) using some skills
3. Sneak around the place using skills
4. Leave the place using skills

The really big difference is that everyone can get skills. Most members of the group will also have one or two powers that can contribute in some way. I can even see how the fighter and cleric utility powers could help in certain situations with a sufficiently willing DM (get over here sounds like it's perfect to save someone from a jump they missed by a couple of squares, or who rolled low on initiative to duck into cover when the guards burst in).

Potentially rituals (or at least scrolls) can have their place here too - 5 or 10 minutes isn't all that long: cracking a safe would typically take at least that much time, and that's a classic of the genre. And while the ritual caster is doing that, the others are making time for him to do so.

Oh, and possibly the BIGGEST aid to the infiltration scenario? Minions.

Creatures who are fully functional, but only have a single hitpoint. So now anyone can sidle up to the guard and cold-cock him if there is no other alternative.

 

[Surgoshan]

And because the guard will likely be noticed, the wizard better have "Disguise Self" prepared so he can continue the guard's routine while the rest of the party moves along (carrying a corpse).

 

[Sashi]

As I said, I am trying to understand how to do this in 4E. In the past, it we have done what i have said with a combination of spell casters and magic items. Yes, the earlier editions were biased towards spell casters; I am not denying that. But you could "spread the love" to players that were not spell casters to make a fairly rich magic infiltration game. They do not all have to be wizards, but they need some form of magic. That is what I am trying to figure out here.

The way to do it in 4E is to use skills, social interactions, skill challenges (not "skill challenge to break into the tower" but "skill challenge to get past the guards at the gate"), and planning. Planning in ways other than "We'll cast spell A, then use magic item B, then spells C and D, then spell A again." But, for example, how do you get past the walls if you can't stone shape a tunnel into them?

You've highlighted exactly what I hated about previous editions. In order to get anything done everyone had to be a spellcaster or carry little bits of spellcasters around in their pockets. There are any number of "heist" movies that you can watch where people break into all sorts of places without relying on magic (unless there's a hacker, that's usually treated as "magic" by the movies ... rant for other occasion).

In terms of things that you, as a DM, will have to do change. The biggest thing is that you'll have to prepare for a bit more combat, since Stealth rolls have a bigger probability for failure than Invisibility does.

 

[Rechan]

To think, you might have to model your game after old fashioned infiltration like in the real world.

Although, if you want some good magic feel, look at the Doppelganger racial writeup in the back of the MM. Change Shape is powerful.

 

[SableWyvern]

I don't see any need for the OP to use skill challenges if he dislikes the degree and style of abstraction they involve. Skill challenges are a tool made available to GMs in 4E, but there's nothing about the game that requires their use.

 

[Surgoshan]

Rather than designing your adventures around what you'll be expecting your players to do, why not wing it for a while? Once they know what they can do, you'll know what they can do.

 

[Rechan]

I don't see any need for the OP to use skill challenges if he dislikes the degree and style of abstraction they involve.

Because he wants a style of game which the more meat of the core books (Powers) does not facilitate.

 

[Cryptos]

Since first edition, my gaming group has always like to play infiltration games. Think of the video game "Thief". The object is to sneak in and out to achieve your objective with minimal combat. In fact, at the highest levels, if you pull an alert this typically results in a party wipe. In 3.x terms, you are commonly playing in areas that, if they resulted in straight up combat, would be 5 to 6 encounter levels above the party.

I understood how to design such a scenario in the first three editions. They were not perfect and each edition had problems, but I understood them. I do not understand how to do this in 4.0.

I know you're getting hammered here for this, but quite honestly you're being silly and perhaps a bit stubborn not to see what's in front of you, so I'll add my own voice to this:

I would think infiltration would be more like the example you cite (Thief: TDP, Thief: TMA, etc) under 4e as you don't get to use magic as a crutch quite as much.

I don't remember having Garret cast Illusory Wall to patch up a hole after using Stone Shape. (That said we now have Illusory Wall thanks to DDI's Class Acts article.) Invisibility potions, when he had them, didn't last very long and were expensive. He had to pick the unconscious guard up and drag him to a place around the corner and under the stairs so that the body wasn't noticed. No hallucinations as fake guards on patrol.

There are still lots of ways a wizard could assist on an infiltration mission: Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Jump, Feather Fall, Disguise Self, Invisibility, Levitate, Arcane Gate, and Illusory Wall (in the latest Dragon) are just a few places where a wizard could help. Warlocks are concealed if they move more than four squares at a time, can boost their stealth checks by 5 for a few critical moments or give themselves a boost to bluff, teleport, spider climb up a wall every five minutes, deliver messages via tiny teleporting imp, or turn into an insubstantial flying shadow for five minutes.

But now it's actually an infiltration mission, instead of a Spellcasting Expo. Everyone has to pitch in equally, using all of their skills, talents and powers... and it leans more towards skills.

I'd just like to add that after today's Class Acts article, I was inspired to create a human wizard character that is both an illusionist by skill (like real performing illusionists) as well as by arcane power, as skilled at bluffing and sleight of hand as he is in real spellcasting. At level one, thanks to feats, he's got Bluff and Thievery trained, as well as in many of the skills on his class list. By level 2, he'll have stealth as well, and will be the equal of any thief. He may not be a Rogue by combat role, but he would be as good of a thief as any by trade. Eyeballing him against other wizards I've made or wizard pregens, he didn't give up very much to gain this, either. He's still combat capable.

With so many feats (and so few to chose from for any given character build) it's almost criminal to ignore the benefits of Skill Training or / and a multiclass feat.

 

[Torchlyte]

If you want to maintain the magical elements in your espionage missions AND you want everyone to have access to these elements, there's a clear solution: design magic items for them. Rather than items that just grant invisibility, it may be a good idea to put in side-effects or drawbacks so that it's not "I cast Solve Problem X from my wand."

Example: A magical ball that, when held, makes everyone else invisible to you.

Rather than designing your adventures around what you'll be expecting your players to do, why not wing it for a while? Once they know what they can do, you'll know what they can do.

It's hard to come up with fortress layouts and guard routines on the fly... for me, at least.

 

[Piratecat]

A quick suggestion: in 4e, feats are cheap. Encourage folks to buy the skill training feat to acquire stealth, and perhaps several of the social skills. As the guy whose dragonborn ruined our party's stealth check this evening ("I rolled a five! Everyone hear me? I rolled a five!"), it probably comes in handy in an infiltration game for everyone to have a little.