Is Intimidate broken?

[CWD]

Hmmm... another michigan gamer, there seem to be a lot of us...

Anyhow.

IMHO, the root of some of the problem is adherance to the book vrs "reality", if you will. For example, according to the book, the DC is fixed. Thats great. For even encounters. IE, assuming neither side has a tactical advantage via terrain, both sides are rested and all, etc etc. Then it's great. It breaks down quickly, IMHO, when you factor in things like preperation, terrain, health, supplies, etc etc. For example, a wizard who is wounded and out of spells might be able to bluff a party into thinking hes still readily able to take them down... but he also would, IMHO, be more vulnerable to intimidate... because he knows, mentaly, that if it comes to blows he is probably NOT going to be the victor.

I agree. There should be conditional modifiers for intimidate. The book implies there aren't. Yuck!

I also think that Intimidate needs to more accurately reflect the manner of the intimidation rather than just a plain old Cha modifier. For example, a high level wizard will rarely have a good intimidate skill because he gets only OK skill points (low skill points offset by high INT), Intimidate is cross-class, and he probably has a mediocre Charisma to boot. On the other hand, if he could turn me into a toad, I'd sure be afraid of him.

 

[Tsyr]

I agree. There should be conditional modifiers for intimidate. The book implies there aren't. Yuck!

I also think that Intimidate needs to more accurately reflect the manner of the intimidation rather than just a plain old Cha modifier. For example, a high level wizard will rarely have a good intimidate skill because he gets only OK skill points (low skill points offset by high INT), Intimidate is cross-class, and he probably has a mediocre Charisma to boot. On the other hand, if he could turn me into a toad, I'd sure be afraid of him.

Aye. Likewise, a frail bard would probably be less intimidated by a person carrying a rapier or short sword -who he might have a chance to fight off in a fair fight- than by a big hulking brute with a warhammer that weighs as much as the bards traveling back -who could probably pick the bard up and break him across he knee, not to mention out fight him-.

I know I would be anyhow!

Things like that

 

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Re

...Personally, I don't care how lucky a PC gets, they are not going to intimidate the main enemy if I don't feel it would fit...

See, this is the kind of attitude that drives me crazy. Do you do the same for Hide, Move Silently, or Climb?

A DM I usually play with is famous for ignoring intimidate rolls, becasue his guys "Aren't afraid of you guys" (no matter how much you roll.

I thik if you spend points on a skill, it should have quantifiable results. Not just "He's scared, but doesn't change his behaviour" or something like that.

In much the same way that "Hide" isn't as effective as Invisibility, "Intimidate" shouldn't be as effective as Fear.

But there should be a comparable effect.

If the DM isn't going to allow the PC's "to intimidate the main enemy if (they) don't feel it would fit" then what's the point?

Why spend valuable skill points on something that will allow you to only intimidate people when it's not important tot he plot?.

 

[AvarielAvenger]

Aye. Likewise, a frail bard would probably be less intimidated by a person carrying a rapier or short sword -who he might have a chance to fight off in a fair fight- than by a big hulking brute with a warhammer that weighs as much as the bards traveling back -who could probably pick the bard up and break him across he knee, not to mention out fight him-.

I know I would be anyhow!

Things like that

See, I always thought Initimidate not as some big hulking thug threating to punch you, but as "You have to ask yourself one question.... do you feel lucky? Well... do ya, punk?"

I think it's more the tone of your voice, the manner of your expression and the way you present yourself that should have an effect on intimidation rolls, not how big you are.

 

[Crothian]

It is frustrating when you can never intimidate the NPCs. But it is equally frustrating when the PCs are never intimidated either. I allow PCs to intimidate, but they must realize the NPCs can do it also. The rules don't change depending on who is using the skill.

 

[Teflon Billy]

It is frustrating when you can never intimidate the NPCs. But it is equally frustrating when the PCs are never intimidated either. I allow PCs to intimidate, but they must realize the NPCs can do it also. The rules don't change depending on who is using the skill.

I know about "Rule Zero" and all Croathian, but the rules themselves state that the "social" skills don't affect PC's. So the rules do change depending on who is using the skill.

That said, I'm with you on this. The social skills should affect PC's (and in my game, they do)

 

[Lord of Bones]

I believe that dependant on charcter class; intimidate should be adapted for that class' prime stat ie. a wizard is more likely to intimidate with his/her intelligence whereas a fighter will with his/her strength.

 

[Crothian]

I know about "Rule Zero" and all Croathian, but the rules themselves state that the "social" skills don't affect PC's. So the rules do change depending on who is using the skill.

That said, I'm with you on this. The social skills should affect PC's (and in my game, they do)

It says social skills don't work on PCs? I must have missed that. I think a few other people must have as well becasue I've ran adventures where the NPCs had points in intimidation. And what's the point of giving them that if not to intimidate the PCs?

 

[S'mon]

After reading this thread I think I might disallow the Intimidate skill and just use Bluff checks instead where appropriate. Thinking about it, whenever the PCs have intimidated the NPCs in my game it's been through roleplay and the situation with no dice involved, anyway - if I'm 'inside the NPC's head' and know what they're thinking ("These guys wiped out most of my squad last time we met - oh jeez...") overruling that with a die roll would be silly.

 

[Tsyr]

It says social skills don't work on PCs? I must have missed that. I think a few other people must have as well becasue I've ran adventures where the NPCs had points in intimidation. And what's the point of giving them that if not to intimidate the PCs?

So that they seem fleshed out, so it doesn't seem that they were brought into being specificly to kill the PCs?