Is it just me, or is evil winning in the Forgotten Realms?

[Nightfall]

*considers himself very Realms oriented* But whatever Faraer. Some people, like they say, they just can't reach. I'm just saying I disagree and I agree to disagree with you.

 

[Faraer]

OK. But I see you're registered at Candlekeep.com, and I honestly expect that if you discussed this with Ed there you'd change your mind pretty quickly.

 

[wingsandsword]

in Ed's exquisitely wrought historical structures, in conversations with him and others. Stating otherwise is flat-out misinformation, based at best on partial and mistaken interpretation of the sources.

Here's the big secret:

The Forgotten Realms isnt' Ed Greenwood's Personal World anymore.

It hasn't been for almost 20 years now, yes it was his creation originally. Much like Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms has changed in ways the original creator never intended, but it happens. Eberron will probably change in ways Keith Baker never saw coming and wouldn't agree with either. That's what happens when a world created by one person becomes a world written by many over a long time.

In Ed Greenwood's Realms, the gods are non-anthropomorphic entities that might not even be real, polyamory is a cultural norm, and not much outside the heartlands even is known to exist. The Realms were originally created by Ed, yes and most certainly he deserves respect for what he has done. The world bears his fingerprints, again most certainly, and his statements carry some weight. But the "official" Realms bears little resemblance to his primary works and style of the Realms, and just because he says something does not make it absolute canon. They changed with the Time of Troubles, they changed with many of the novels that came afterwards, and they've

Now, Ed's notes are very useful for inspiration and ideas I'll admit. I even made the entire plot of my campaign based on some of his writings (Larloch trying to build a portal network around Faerun to control everybody with), but when he says something, and everything else appears to say something else, I'll go with the preponderance of evidence.

You know there was something seriously wrong with the world when back in the 2e days, most gaming groups I knew of were one of three types:
1. Playing in the Realms, either as a default or because they loved it.
2. Playing in another world, and refusing to play the Realms because they hated it, usually because they felt that uber NPC's meant there was no reason to adventure ("An ancient lich is going to try and destroy the kingdom, we were going to go stop him, but then Elminster came along and stopped him for us").
3. Playing in the Realms, playing villains going around killing the famous NPC's (I saw a disturbing number of Evil campaigns run by many different GM's of: Let's get high level then go kill Elminster!")

Even if, big if, by a careful analysis of all the novels, sourcebooks, materials, Ed's notes and such you could prove that there was some giant cosmic balance of law and chaos, good and evil that meant that no one side ever won too much, almost nobody noticed it. To the vast majority of the gaming public, the Realms has seemed in the past to be a "Good Guys Always Win" world, and the 3e Realms toned that down, and made it so PC's could take the spotlight and save the day. It's not presumed that every threat will be neatly and regularly taken care of by a big roster of great heroes. They're still out there, but they're pretty busy, and sometimes evil slips through the cracks.

(Now, I don't like everything about 3e Realms, I'll say that the new cosmology is nonsense and I'm sticking with the Great Wheel like it's supposed to be.)

 

[Faraer]

OK, complex subject of Ed's Realms vs the published Realms.

But the "official" Realms bears little resemblance to his primary works and style of the Realms, and just because he says something does not make it absolute canon.

Why do you say 'little resemblance'? Fact by fact, dynamic by dynamic, most of what's true in Ed's Realms is true in the published Realms, and vice versa -- no? Apart from anything else, far more published Realmslore is outright by Ed than by any other author. And in fact, by Ed's original agreement with TSR, what he says is canonical unless contradicted in print. To take one of your instances, what Ed's written about the sexual mores of the Realms -- which, like much of what he's written online, is implicit in the published sources -- is the case in the official Realms until WotC decides to go against that in the future.

. . . but when he says something, and everything else appears to say something else, I'll go with the preponderance of evidence.
. . .
It's not presumed that every threat will be neatly and regularly taken care of by a big roster of great heroes.

What preponderance of evidence indicates -- not superficially suggests, but either states or implies by informed in-context analysis -- that every threat will be neatly and regularly taken care of? This is the case that's never been made.

To the vast majority of the gaming public, the Realms has seemed in the past to be a "Good Guys Always Win" world . . .

No metric exists to measure what the gaming public thinks. My impression is that there were a small number of people putting this about on the Internet, and a slightly larger number of people half-believing it because they heard it somewhere.

 

[Nightfall]

OK. But I see you're registered at Candlekeep.com, and I honestly expect that if you discussed this with Ed there you'd change your mind pretty quickly.

Actually I talked to Ed's "Inner voice" named Kuje.

 

[kuje31]

Actually I talked to Ed's "Inner voice" named Kuje.

Hey, I'm not getting involved in this debate. And there are other fans that have more contact with Ed then I do. Faraer is one of them if I'm not mistaken.

I, for the record, agree with Faraer.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Not sure what other signs there are, or maybe I'm just reading things wrong, but it sure seems to me like evil seems to be in the ascendant right now.

But of course. And we worked pretty hard for it, too.

Evil in the realms has to be strong now. When the big good guys realize that the dreaded Elder Evils are really only a bunch of glorified freaks with no real firepower, they'll fall faster than you can say "Ityak-Ortheel" (If you don't know what I'm talking about, look up their stats in Champions of ruin)

Edmonster and his cronies are busy

No, the Old Rogue was busy in the Hells while the whole Shade incident happened.

While we're talking about Shade: There's a ray of hope for goodness, as we know that

Spoiler

the Netherese City of Opus has survived as well, being drawin into the Gates of the Moon. Any time now, they will enter the Realms and take the war to the Shades

 

[Nightfall]

Kuje,

yeah but few can claim to be the voice of Ed Greenwood like some people believe on WotC FR BB.

If you agree then I guess I agree. Maybe.

 

[kuje31]

Kuje,

yeah but few can claim to be the voice of Ed Greenwood like some people believe on WotC FR BB.

If you agree then I guess I agree. Maybe.

Aye,

And that "title" is starting to bother me. Yes, I talk to Ed but I'm no different then the many others that can contact him through Candlekeep.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Darkness, evil and destruction everywhere. And hopefully Elminster sitting stark raving mad in a asylum somewhere. I really hate that character...

More like someone offs him, mafia style.