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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arcona" data-source="post: 5981940" data-attributes="member: 6698118">Howdy... Long time lurker, first time poster... was directed to this thread from RA (the guy with whom Leviathan had the original discussion. Lets start with a few basic premises... some have been mentioned already but I am putting them down to have the concrete 'basis'. A) "Is it WOTCs responsibility?". WOTC (i.e. Hasbro) has one responsibility. To maximise shareholder revenue. They are not doing this to promote good family values or give us gamers fun. Much like EA they try to make what sells and not what people might want.  Our genre in particular is pretty darn niche as it is... hence WOTC tries many different recipes to get those precious USD/EUR/PLN from our pockets. The end result is ALWAYS to go back to investors and present good results.  That might mean they are increasing costs on focusing on a minority of gamers or trying to expand their market (4E did just that by trying to get on the hype of MMORPG based games and their style). Whatever the results its WOTC that decides if their recipe succeeded or failed and not us in our small closet communities. b) The hobby is shrinking. Not where I have been its not. When I started gaming (15 years ago) there were -2- RPG stores (the same chain) in Athens (Greece). Now there are 2 chains with more than a dozen stores in Athens and stores all over Greece. One of the chains sells primarily RPG (and DND at that) products while the other is focused on Wargames with half the store dedicated to RPGS (and again 1/2 of that for DnD). Similarly when I started playing I could count the people I knew playing RPGs in my fingers and toes. Now I know maybe a hundred people (personally know them) playing and know that there hundreds more.  The hobby has increased very much. Same applies from my 4 years in the UK and some applies from my limited experience in Poland. Generally... the hobby is niche and will always be niche. The comparison with video games is a mistake as many more were playing video games from when they first appeared and until now. Video games are more popular but also have their own share of controversy associated with them and are also considered a 'geeky' past time.  On the other hand depending on where I go I see recognition when I mention RPGs more and more. From WHFBRPG in Poland, to Pendragon in the UK and other more osbscure RPGs accross the world (Dogs in the Vinyard, My life with Master, Paranoia, Fiasco, Exalted and others).  Furthermore I now very often see tournaments, game days and the like and with 2-3 times a year frequency where those used to be a once a year event and not that great either. So generally when I compare today with 15 or even 10 or 5 years ago the hobby is more widespread and more 'mainstream' than it used to be. From gaming into one's mothers basement we now have DEDICATED CAFFEES where people go to play RPGs. c) Edition wars not seen elsewhere. Already been accepted as a mistake from the OP but given that I lived through the WoD vs nWoD era and was an avid White Wolf fan I can indeed confirm that edition wars exist everywhere. In the case of Old WoD and New WoD it went as far as to almost obliterate what White Wolf had created over the years. Overnight hundreds stopped playing and supporting WW and though to this day I prefer the d10 system I blame them for their error in finishing 'the metaplot' and restarting everything. WOTC on the other hand at least advances the plot of their settings on an edition change. Whether that advancement is good or bad is up to the people to decide. As a side note even in wargaming you have edition wars... There are large WH40k communities still stuck to 3rd edition despite the fact that there is 6th just out. Same applies for WHFBRPG where the change in style of the current edition (to include markers and other doodas) meant significant amount of the player core stayed with the old groups. d) DnD the Flagship Sorry but no. Sure its a recognisable name but I do not consider DnD the Flagship of my Hobby. When asked what I play I dont say DnD... I say RPGs... I actually AVOID saying DnD cause I do feel kinda lame to explain that I am playing Dwarves and Elves saving princesses and no you cant relay the epicness or the other things you do in a five minute discussion. Preferably I explain RPGs as doing 'improvisation' combined with being the heroes of ones favorite movie and not stuck in a set script. Whats more there are so many SIMPLER, BETTER and NICER systems and game worlds out there that to introduce new players to DnD just feels wrong.  A few years ago (and just this year my brother) we introduced new players via Warhammer Fantasy RPG since the rules are much easier to follow for someone completely new. Whats more with other systems you can focus on what a new guy/gal wants and not on DnD... DnD has many positive characteristics but is at the same time followed by so many negatives and so much past that having it as a Flagship maybe even HURTS the hobby...  e) Is it our responsibility? Well this is a tough one.  Personally I agree, though not due to lazyness, that I am happy to play with my group and dont really care to add new people. It causes frustration when I have to deal with 10 different players in 1 session meaning we have maybe 1 hour of progress in a 6-7 hour session. One thing to consider is that you dont have to be friends with people to roleplay with them. As such you can meet and game and that is all... this means that when a community gets going it doesnt need to recruit or increase the size... once 1-2 games get going those who want to stay, stay and those who dont like it move on... Not only is it time consuming to get new players in but given that they rarely stick to it (due to the time investment required or preferences) it actually frustrates your older, more experienced players that also have the time investment but end up having to babysit instead of playing. Sure teaching new people may mean that eventually you get some to stick but then you end up with a big unmanageble group until someone starts another game... (By the way I realise this last part (the whole e section) is a bit all over the place but what can you do, its a complex point) But, I hear you say, this means that companies will stop producing games for us to play if you dont ensure they get people playing and buying their stuff. Really? I thought imagination was the number 1 thing of RPGs. I honestly believe that if TODAY all RPG companies closed, I would still have enough material to roleplay for the rest of my life...  We have so much material already and so little time that even if I were in 3 sessions a week I wouldnt have the pleasure to explore all the GOOD games out there, all the GOOD pre-written plots and all the AMAZING plots and campaigns people made up!  Seriously there are so many things out there already that I WANT to play and I cant that with my old group we cant wait (so to speak) to be pensioners...  We reason that our parents generation had 1 vital problem... they are pensioners now and all they can do is watch sports, play cards and maybe critisize young people... When we are old we will be able to play from morning to evening ALL these things we cant play now! It will be magic... well until we start dieing off that is but what can you do! PS> I do think online communities are great as opposed to Console Cowboy. I am currently in a couple of RPG online communities and I am actively DMing 4-5 Play by Posts and playing in another 3... sure the pace is slow and they are not 'face to face' but they are still fun and interesting. Same applies for the good old White Wolf chatrooms (Bremen and New Bremen) I still recall moments from my roleplaying there that will never leave me although they were done via a computer... wish they were still running.</blockquote>

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