Is killing something Good an inherently Evil act?

[I'm A Banana]

Let's say there's this Deva. And I kill it. It's not an oh-so-cliche fallen angel, nor is it a misguided spirit -- it is still Good, and it is acting in the interests of Good as I kill it. I have no intention of fullfilling what it was doing...I don't even know what it was doing, so I really can't. It was an agent and representative of Goodness, Kindness, Compassion, and All Those Wonderful Things, and I snuffed out it's existence. It was going to save drowning puppies, but I didn't know that (though I do know that Devas are inherently pretty much Good creatures), and I put a chiv in it.

Did I do a bad thing?

[Edit...perhaps some perspective]

On the flip side, is killing an Evil thing an inherently Good act? Let's say there's this Yugoloth. And I kill it. It's not some redeemed soul or some reformed spirit -- it's still Evil, and is actin in the interests of Evil as I kill it. I have no intention of carrying on with it's evil, but I didn't know what it was doing, so it wasn't like I was trying to thwart his plans, either. It was an agent and representative of Evil, Corruption, Maliciousness, and All Those Horrible Things, and I snuffed out it's existence. It was going to burn down an orphanage, but I didn't know that (though I do know that Yugoloths are inherently pretty much Evil creatures), and I put a chiv in it.

Did I do a good thing?

Spoiler

Long-Winded Spoiler Explanation: Because according to the Blood War, fiends kill things that are Evil all the time, and yet remain Evil...so how is killing something that is Good different?

Also, I ask because in desgning my next campaign setting, I've run aground of something. I made it a world where planar portals are slowly dissolving it's essence. The idea is that whenever something enters from another plane, the material plane gets corrupted and tainted and punched through, and that, slowly but surely, the material plane is being destroyed by things being summoned/conjured into it, and the portals that occur within it. It's on the verge of collapse, with more planar creatures coming through each day. No one knows what will happen when it collapses...it's not nessecarily the End of the World, but it's definately going to change the world forever. Arrayed on one side is the Grand Church, which sees this as the process of the Coming of the Gods -- basically, the more holes there are in the fabric of the material plane, the closer everyone is to uniting with the heavens above, which is definately a Good Thing. On the other side is a loose coalition of fey and dragons who, intrinsically tied to the Material Plane, don't want that Comong to happen. They want to mend the holes and stop Outsiders from coming through. This includes demons and devils, but also includes Devas and Fiends.

So in the PC's home village, there is a conflict between the local dragon-witch and the local priest of the Grand Church. The dragon-witch's friend, a Guardian Naga, is the town's spirit protector, and has defended the town against the coming of fiends, but also has destroyed the Good outsiders she has come accross, usually with little warning. The idea is that the Good Outsiders would want to hasten the Coming of the Gods, and don't want to heal the Material Plane. But are the dragons and fey inherently evil (or even inherently non-good) because they want to keep the Material Plane intact, and thus keep the people from what may be Heaven on Earth? Can you have a good alignment and not want to destroy the world in all it's evil?

 

[Hammerhead]

Considering that according to your example, you killed it for the simple sake of killing it, then yeah. But I would say the same thing if you killed a person.

 

[Anabstercorian]

YES. It's a bad thing!

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

You can't fool me. I see what you're doing there...

You're trying to keep other people from killing Devas so you can have all the XP to yourself. But I'm on to you! And I just gave a couple of trumpet archons some cement overshoes. They'll be playing "Under The Sea" on the way to meet Davy Jones, and I'll be going up a level.

(edit)

...still, it depends. Were the puppies evil?

 

[Aeric]

Since you claim you didn't know what it was doing, what was your motivation for killing it? The motivation, IMHO, is what would make it a good or evil act.

For example, if you saw a deva about to smite a seemingly helpless woman, and you killed it, only to discover that the woman was an evil mage or a demon in disguise or something, than it was not an evil act, because you were motivated by compassion.

If you killed it just for XP purposes, then not only is it an evil act, it is a metagamey evil act, which in DM terminology is the worst kind of evil.

 

[Hammerhead]

Well, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the morality of an action is determined by object, intent, and circumstance. So I can look at those three things before deciding whether or not any particular action was good or bad. However, in answer to the question of the thread, instead of the lame deva-killing example, I'd say no. Otherwise, Paladins, being holy warriors, would have a very hard time ever fighting in a war. I'm sure that many of the people who fall under their Great Cleaving blade are good people who may have similarily noble reasons for going to war.

 

[I'm A Banana]

#1: I updated the original post to hopefully make it more clear. And it now includes a spoiler explanation of the SPECIFIC reasons I ask, but it gets a little bit into campaign-specifics.

#2: The question of Motive.

Since you claim you didn't know what it was doing, what was your motivation for killing it? The motivation, IMHO, is what would make it a good or evil act.

Short explanation is that I killed it because it's mere existence could bring about the end of the world. Now, the end of the world isn't inherently a bad thing -- some people say the end of the world will usher in an Eternal Paradise. The Deva said that. The Deva said he knew that the end of the world was coming and that he believed it to be a Good Thing, because All Evil Would Die.

But others say other things. The fiends I kill say that the end of the world was coming and it would be magnificent, because All Good Would Die, and it would usher in a world of Eternal Torment. The formians claim that it will create a world of Ultimate Order. The Slaad claim it would create a world of Chaos Supreme. The Rilmani say it would be a Perfect Balance.

But I don't want the world to end. There are too many questions. It's not time yet. We don't know for sure. I want the puppies to live, but can I trust a Deva more than I can trust a Devil who says the exact same thing?

All I know for sure is that it's existence is causing suffering to the world as it is right now. But the world as it is right now can be a pretty brutal place...maybe it deserves to suffer. Maybe the suffering will make it better, or maybe it will only make the evil parts of it suffer. Am I an evil person for slaying this good creature, for saving the world, for not believing in the words of angels, because I am affraid that they might be wrong?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

But I don't want the world to end. There are too many questions. It's not time yet. We don't know for sure. I want the puppies to live, but can I trust a Deva more than I can trust a Devil who says the exact same thing?

Never, ever trust an idealogue. They'll tell you anything, anything to get you to bat for their team. For all you know, the Deva knows exactly what will happen to you. Maybe your entire identity will be subsumed into the Deva's god, and thereby be annihilated. The Deva thinks this is the ultimate good because it is required to and it never disobeys its master.

Just because something's from the upper planes doesn't mean it thinks you know what's in your own best interests. And the things that it thinks are just super are probably fairly mind-bending if what you want out of life is a long lifespan and few metaphysical anamolies.

Of course, if the Deva doesn't actually know what is going to happen, and only thinks it does, you're up the same creek. In the opinion of Joe Commoner, the Deva can go and get stuffed just like the forces of Evil, Law and Chaos. Hell, we've got crops to get planted. We don't need any of this "end of the world" garbage.

Myself, I'm with the dragons and fey. If they like universal [order/chaos/good/evil] they should stay on the freakin' outer planes where it's already made manifest. Let us manage our own business here in the material plane in all its messy complexity, because we like complexity and having things like choices and decisions instead of it being "all good, all the time."

And if they can't figure out what the end of the world is going to look like, then they'd better come back with some better proof than "I say it'll be great," if they want any support from the denizens of the material plane. Sure, we might be convinced that a celestial victory would be super, but only if they can give us a "triple your universe back" guarantee that their version is the one that'll stick. I don't think anyone's going to be very happy if the place gets overrun with slaads. Certainly not anyone who's working out of the SRD.

 

[Andor]

Given that in your example you are essentially killing the Deva in self-defense and defense of other, hell no. It's a perfectly respactable act.

In general no. My god how boring would it be if the only source of conflict was good vs evil. Why? 'cause they wear black silly. Blech. Morally complex conflicts of good vs good or at least like alignment vs like alignment are far more interesting. I love villians who are honourable and righteous people who happen to be working for the other team.

Heck remember Watchmen? "He's right. All we did was fail to stop him from saving the world."

 

[I'm A Banana]

Given that in your example you are essentially killing the Deva in self-defense and defense of other, hell no. It's a perfectly respactable act.

Though according to the Deva, the one I'm killing defending by killing it is wicked and evil. The Deva came to save puppies and kill necromancer lords, and here I'm *defending* those vile mutations of morality? Can I still call myself a Defender of Good if I'm defending the Local Chapter of the Burn Orphans Cuz It's Funny Society (Darn BOCIFS!)?