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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Is Multi-Attacking Really Control? A different Fireball
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7631403" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>A lot of the Controller role was just a rationalization to give the wizard more/better powers than other classes, so that it retained /some/ fraction of the look/feel/versatility it had when LFQW was in full force.</p><p></p><p>5e has returned to LFQW, the wizard's powers are back to being broader than any 4e-style role could encompass.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I think it's legitimately a form of control, or, at least, something that's been bundled into a controller role that'd still have enough going on without it.</p><p></p><p>AEs: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Efficiently reduce minions, while single target options are often 'wasted' against them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Deal full (even extra) damage vs Swarms, while melee/range damage is reduced.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Attack invisible or concealed foes at no penalty, and allow you to make broader guesses about where hidden foes may be.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Interdict areas of the battlefield. This is the second-hand control you're talking about. If an AE targets all creatures, there are places you can target it without catching your allies, this shapes the battlefield and encourages enemies to engage your allies</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Limit enemy tactics that require closely supporting eachother. AEs that target enemies can even punish flanking by centering them on an ally being mobbed.</li> </ul><p></p><p>I could see breaking out the AE thing to a different, striker-like "Blaster" role, while focusing controllers on imposing conditions.</p><p></p><p> I do like the idea of a push and/or knocked prone on a miss to represent moving/diving for cover. </p><p></p><p>I think there's lightning powers that blind, daze, stun or the like.</p><p></p><p>I've noticed that cold powers tend to slow, restrain, or weaken; fire to do ongoing damage (meh); necrotic to weaken, immobilize, or do ongoing; psychic to daze, or stun, etc...</p><p></p><p>There's a few little threads of consistency snaking through the wizard's spell list.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, the stun, and anything at all on a miss with an Encounter, is too much. The Dazzling is good, though. Actually, I could see a primary & secondary attack that do damage. And then a larger AE attack that just dazzles.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7631403, member: 996"] A lot of the Controller role was just a rationalization to give the wizard more/better powers than other classes, so that it retained /some/ fraction of the look/feel/versatility it had when LFQW was in full force. 5e has returned to LFQW, the wizard's powers are back to being broader than any 4e-style role could encompass. Yeah, I think it's legitimately a form of control, or, at least, something that's been bundled into a controller role that'd still have enough going on without it. AEs:[list] [*] Efficiently reduce minions, while single target options are often 'wasted' against them. [*] Deal full (even extra) damage vs Swarms, while melee/range damage is reduced. [*] Attack invisible or concealed foes at no penalty, and allow you to make broader guesses about where hidden foes may be. [*] Interdict areas of the battlefield. This is the second-hand control you're talking about. If an AE targets all creatures, there are places you can target it without catching your allies, this shapes the battlefield and encourages enemies to engage your allies [*] Limit enemy tactics that require closely supporting eachother. AEs that target enemies can even punish flanking by centering them on an ally being mobbed. [/list] I could see breaking out the AE thing to a different, striker-like "Blaster" role, while focusing controllers on imposing conditions. I do like the idea of a push and/or knocked prone on a miss to represent moving/diving for cover. I think there's lightning powers that blind, daze, stun or the like. I've noticed that cold powers tend to slow, restrain, or weaken; fire to do ongoing damage (meh); necrotic to weaken, immobilize, or do ongoing; psychic to daze, or stun, etc... There's a few little threads of consistency snaking through the wizard's spell list. Yes, the stun, and anything at all on a miss with an Encounter, is too much. The Dazzling is good, though. Actually, I could see a primary & secondary attack that do damage. And then a larger AE attack that just dazzles. [/QUOTE]
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