Is my NPC still invisible?

[Raflar]

The party is observing the actions of a group of orcs down in a gully, their attention is focused down below, my NPC (elvin ranger/wizard wearing boots of elvinkind) has cast invisibility on herself and sneaks up on a party member. She places her sword blade on a PCs shoulder/neck and says "move and your dead"....

She hasn't actually attacked, but her weapons are drawn, is she still invisible?

From my interpretation of the PHB I would say no, but I wanted to get other opinions.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Yes, still invisible, IMO.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I think you would become visible. Why?

"She places her sword blade on a PCs shoulder/neck"

This looks like a melee touch attack, since you "touched" a foe in a threatening manner, albeit, with a lot of bonuses. Namely: attacker invisible, defender surprised and flat-footed.

Order things would happen:

1) Listen vs Move Silently.
2a) Defender succeeds: Normal Combat (With the invisible creature probably running away.)
2b) Defender fails: Melee Touch Attack, without the defender's Dex, but with Deflection. (If you have to roll against inanimate objects when hitting something with a standard action, you should roll this.)
3) Attacker turns visible
4) Free action: (Bad guy says, "Blah.")
5) Normal 1st round.
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Now you may say, "Well this sucks because the bad guy just wasted the surprise round doing something stupid."

I would ad hoc that the melee touch attack gave the attacker a readied action to deliver an attack against the PC whenever the PC moved. I would also rule that this could be a sneak attack because the sword is near a vital area (Specifically, his throat).
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I can see how this could go both ways, however, I read that the invisibility spell wears off whenever you damage or threaten a foe. Hence why the invisibility wears off even when you miss.

 

[Killer Shrike]

While dramatic, such a move is not tactically sound with mere Invisibility.

Technically, you could call the sword on the shoulder bit a touch attack. However, if the sword on the shoulder bit didnt fire off any touch attacks, charges, or otherwise harm the target, and not give the invisible character any combat advantage it would fall under the umbrella of getting the targets attention/ becoming detectable rather than under the category of an attack.

Invisibility

Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: The character or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: No or Yes (harmless, object)

The creature or object touched vanishes from sight, even from darkvision. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, the gear vanishes, too. If the character casts the spell on someone else, neither the character nor the character's allies can see the subject, unless the character can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible, such as a trailing rope.

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an "attack" includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Note that spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

I'd vote for still invisible. In game terms, I'd say she; during her surprise round; "Readies an attack against the victim moving". Then she speaks as a free action.

Niether of these ruin invisibility. And the game mechanics work well enough for what you are trying to do. If the person decides to move, then the NPC get's her attack first (and note the PC is still flat footed at this point). Then off you go into normal combat.

The sword on the neck thing had better just be flavor text. Otherwise you are saying that a player can put his weapon to a bad guy's throat with just a touch attack. I don't think you want to go there...

 

[drnuncheon]

While dramatic, such a move is not tactically sound with mere Invisibility.

Technically, you could call the sword on the shoulder bit a touch attack. However, if the sword on the shoulder bit didnt fire off any touch attacks, charges, or otherwise harm the target, and not give the invisible character any combat advantage it would fall under the umbrella of getting the targets attention/ becoming detectable rather than under the category of an attack.

Right...but just to clarify, "becoming detectable" != "becoming visible" - what they're saing there is that you can notice the presence of someone even if they're invisible, if they do something that affects the environment.

In this case, they're detectable because the PC says "Wow, it feels like there's an invisible sword at my neck, there's probably someone holding it." If they were to remove the sword they would no longer be detectable.

J

 

[Henrix]

Yes, I would go for still invisible.

 

[Henrix]

And "becoming detectable" in no way dispels your invisibility.
You can holler all you want, kick up dust, get hit by a Glitterdust spell, carry a lamp, hold the hand of your special friend, and so on, without the Invisibility ending.

The guy with the sword at his throat would certainly know somebody's there, but that is the idea.

 

[Voadam]

I would say putting your sword against someone's shoulder or neck is not an attack under the spell's definition so the npc should still be invisible. Swinging your sword against someone's neck/shoulder would be an attack as would drawing the blade against their skin to give them a little cut to get their attention. Sticking a loaded crossbow into their back is not an attack, just a threat of a readied attack.

 

[Raflar]

Thanks guys, I'm going with the 'still invisible' but detected theory.

This (invisible) ranger has been watching the party and wants to determine their intentions before choosing to side with them or not. (which she probably will as the PCs are 'hunting orc') I don't care if the party 'knows she's there' but if she needs to make a fast getaway (there is a half-orc druid in the party which makes her uneasy) she doesn't want to jepordize her 'invisibility' advantage.

The blade to the neck is more for flavour that an attack thing anyway.

thanks again.