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<blockquote data-quote="Ginnel" data-source="post: 4348574" data-attributes="member: 66058">The only individual who is losing out in a game designed to balance around group optimization rather than individual optimization is the power gamer who wants to out shine everyone else with his &quot;uber build&quot;&nbsp;Someone who wants to play a thief who steals other peoples stuff more than ok, someone who stays out of combat not putting himself in danger thats gonna fly too, BUT there are and should be consequences for these actions just like real life, if your character thinks of himself all the time he will be disliked, he will get a dressing down from other characters.&nbsp;A Lone wolf is more than accomodated in the new edition (I presume thats what this is about) and will face the same consequences as ever, if a character wants too he can withold his support to demand focus on his own goals, not a problem and it will be dealt with the same as any game.&nbsp;A party of individuals/loners forced together (otherwise why would they be together) also works and a teamwork ethic will naturally effect them eventually as it is more efficient and will serve them better, this will happen in any system where combat is not a pushover.&nbsp;In D&amp;D it is possible, to create individual concepts and group concepts one does not exclude the over. &nbsp;In all honesty I can't see where the original question comes from you create your characters, you don't need to fill all the roles you don't need to optimize (the DM responds to this with appropriate challenges) as there is no fixed challenge, the only people losing out are the power gamers who wish to be better than the rest of the group and this is a good thing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ginnel, post: 4348574, member: 66058"] The only individual who is losing out in a game designed to balance around group optimization rather than individual optimization is the power gamer who wants to out shine everyone else with his "uber build" Someone who wants to play a thief who steals other peoples stuff more than ok, someone who stays out of combat not putting himself in danger thats gonna fly too, BUT there are and should be consequences for these actions just like real life, if your character thinks of himself all the time he will be disliked, he will get a dressing down from other characters. A Lone wolf is more than accomodated in the new edition (I presume thats what this is about) and will face the same consequences as ever, if a character wants too he can withold his support to demand focus on his own goals, not a problem and it will be dealt with the same as any game. A party of individuals/loners forced together (otherwise why would they be together) also works and a teamwork ethic will naturally effect them eventually as it is more efficient and will serve them better, this will happen in any system where combat is not a pushover. In D&D it is possible, to create individual concepts and group concepts one does not exclude the over. In all honesty I can't see where the original question comes from you create your characters, you don't need to fill all the roles you don't need to optimize (the DM responds to this with appropriate challenges) as there is no fixed challenge, the only people losing out are the power gamers who wish to be better than the rest of the group and this is a good thing. [/QUOTE]

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