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D&D 4E Is Paizo ever going to shore up it's online support for Pathfinder like 4E does?

Ratinyourwalls

First Post
I know they offer a lot of PDF support and such and that's really cool but what Pathfinder really needs is an online character builder/adventure tools/virtual table like WotC offers. It would really help on prep time.
 

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billd91

Hobbit on Quest
I know they offer a lot of PDF support and such and that's really cool but what Pathfinder really needs is an online character builder/adventure tools/virtual table like WotC offers. It would really help on prep time.

I don't think there's anything to shore up. They may not have a home grown builder, but there are some pretty good ones out there thanks to Paizo's ongoing support of the OGL. I hear the HeroLab Mac beta is going pretty well.
 

UHF

First Post
I doubt it... this here really kicks butt;
Hero Lab - Lone Wolf Development

Unless you're on a Mac, I feel its superior. In fact its so good, its competing against WOTCs 4e online character builder.

Just another thought, but I feel that hand made characters are more manageable under Pathfinder.
 

Nebten

First Post
Yah, Hero Lab is pretty much Pathfinder's Offical Character Creator (can't find sitation for this at this time).

Paizo did the right thing and stayed away from all the options you listed. It took 2 years to the CB and AT to be where they are at today and some say that you need a subscription to have access to it.

So to answer your direct question, hopefully never.
 

UHF

First Post
Yah, Hero Lab is pretty much Pathfinder's Offical Character Creator (can't find sitation for this at this time).

Paizo did the right thing and stayed away from all the options you listed. It took 2 years to the CB and AT to be where they are at today and some say that you need a subscription to have access to it.

So to answer your direct question, hopefully never.
Yes... you require a subscription. (I canceled because for religions reasons :angel: I will not rent software.)

To use the Hero Lab 4e version, you need a subscription to get a one time extraction of the database from WOTC.
 

TheAuldGrump

First Post
There is also PCGen, a not too bad bit of freeware. :) Java, which does make it a trifle slow, but it works on Windows, Mac OS, Linux....

Not as fast to be updated as Hero Labs, being a volunteer effort, but nice and powerful.

The Auld Grump
 

freeAgent

Explorer
As others have said, Hero Lab works great for character creation and management.

There's also Combat Manager, which makes setting up and running combat fairly simple. It's free and better (in my opinion) than Hero Lab's Tactical Console (which provides similar functionality).
 





Mad Hamish

First Post
I've only done a very little but it seems that there's a learning curve
Lone Wolf Development Forums - View Single Post - Pathfinder Community Data Sets....
has some videos demonstrating it
Pathfinder / Hero Lab Community FAQ - Lone Wolf Development Forums
has some faqs about it

there's a wiki at
Home - HLKitWiki

If you download the demo you can try the editor (although I suspect you can't save what you are playing with) and look at the help

I think you can still download information from the wizards database for 4th ed.
Checking there's a thread on the lonewolf forums which has people saying that they could do the download as of the 16th of Jan 2012 after things were broken for a while
DDI Downloader alternatives? - Page 3 - Lone Wolf Development Forums

Saying that it takes a long time, you could well be looking at more than a day.
 


Cyberzombie

Explorer
And let's not forget the Pathfinder SRD on their website. When I'm creating an adventure, setting, or character, I get out my books and flip through them. When I'm actually stating it out, I open up the SRD in a tab and everything is right there. You can't get much better support than that!
 

UHF

First Post
Quick question: is it still possible to do the database extraction from WotC?
I haven't done it in a long time.

I did it to do a database extraction and then use Magic Card Editor, to create power cards, etc.

If Wolflair is still selling the software then I bet you can still do the extraction. Otherwise their software is useless to 4e.
 

Lexeme

First Post
The WotC 4e Character Builder has a great user interface, and I find it a pleasure to use. While I really enjoy using Hero Lab for Pathfinder, the UI is definitely not as user friendly. I have experience watching my wife attempt to create characters with both.

Hero Lab has a number of places where you have to do unintuitive things like click labels to bring up pop-up menus that have options like "Add," "Add and Close," and "Close," which while powerful for an advanced user, can be confusing for novices. That would really summarize my experience with Hero Lab, in general: powerful, advanced, and sometimes complex.

None of that really gets to the point, though. I think folks saying that Paizo should steer clear of first-party character builders simply because either WotC struggled with it or they're happy with Hero Lab (or PCGen or whatever) are being a bit shortsighted.

New players don't often go looking beyond first-party for add-ons to their experience until already moderately advanced players. I have (anecdotal) experiences with new folks who got into 4e, love the character builder, and rely on the entire experience that WotC put together. They've never heard of Hero Lab, and those that don't subscribe to Insider just do everything by hand.

Also, just because WotC struggled doesn't mean Paizo would. There were a lot of things that contributed to the problems Wizards had with D&DI.

I'm definitely not saying Paizo should devote the time and money into a bunch of online tools. I think there is something to be said about sticking to your companies core strengths, but objectively, despite all of the missteps and issues, Insider promises a lot for Wizards - consistent revenue, consistent branding, and a controlled experience. Those aren't all benefits for gamers, obviously, but really, their Character Builder is pretty sweet. :)
 

IronWolf

blank
The WotC 4e Character Builder has a great user interface, and I find it a pleasure to use. While I really enjoy using Hero Lab for Pathfinder, the UI is definitely not as user friendly. I have experience watching my wife attempt to create characters with both.

I don't know. I've turned IronPup (8 years old) loose on Hero Lab for the Beginner Box and he's built a lot of characters with it without much issue at all. Hero Lab is a pretty decent product, if there is a learning curve, it doesn't seem too steep to me.

To top it off, I know people complain about the cost of Hero Lab, but the amount I have paid for Hero Lab has been less than a discounted sub to DDI would have cost me over the same period of time.
 

Lexeme

First Post
You're definitely right about cost.

Regarding ease of use, sure, I'm not saying it's hard to use Hero Lab, just that as a piece of software that's made to be general/flexible, the UI isn't as intuitive.
 

gamerprinter

First Post
Also, just because WotC struggled doesn't mean Paizo would. There were a lot of things that contributed to the problems Wizards had with D&DI.

I'm definitely not saying Paizo should devote the time and money into a bunch of online tools. I think there is something to be said about sticking to your companies core strengths, but objectively, despite all of the missteps and issues, Insider promises a lot for Wizards - consistent revenue, consistent branding, and a controlled experience. Those aren't all benefits for gamers, obviously, but really, their Character Builder is pretty sweet. :)

True, but Paizo did say, they weren't interested in doing online support character builder/VT on their own, as they currently lack the staff to do such a thing, and they'd been hunting for a third party company to offer that service, and an agreement between Hero Lab and Paizo was reached.

In fact, as far as staff goes, they've made it known that their APs are their bread and butter, yet, their APs continue to hit back logs and get moved a month later than planned release, because they lack enough full time writers and freelancers to get their APs done on schedule. This problem would have to be solved first, before they'd consider doing other things...
 

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