Is Paizo's Pathfinder really compatible with 3.5?

[dmccoy1693]

Here is a NPC created specifically for the new rules - and a winning entry at that: paizo.com - Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / RPG SuperstarTM / Round 3 - Top 16: Create a Villain Stat Block / Gulga Cench, Scion of Cyth-V’sug

I rest my case.

Its looks confusing because the superstars are to show their math. Take out the stuff in blue and you get the normal Paizo statblock with CMB thrown in.

 

[BryonD]

I imagine the reaction to Pathfinder will be much the same. So my answer (not having seen the end product) will regrettably have to be "no, it won't be compatible. As the DM, you need to check and recheck every little detail, essentially keeping two hugely complex rulesets in your head at the same time."

Using an old 3.5 module an npc and a PF character both need to try to notice an ambush before they walk into it. The 3.5 npc rolls 1d20+ Spot, the PF character rolls 1d20+ perception. Both compare their result to the DC.

Running a 3.5 module using PF requires zero adaptation.
Anyone who finds it in the least daunting probably should not be DMing in the first place. Not because they can't handle it but because of the mindset to create something that needs to be handled. A good DM in ANY system needs to be able to roll with vastly more complex issues than anything here.

It is less than trivial.

CONVERTING a character would take some work. But that would be easy. But more importantly, there is zero need to bother unless purely for personal preference.

 

[BryonD]

Indeed. This is one of the awesome things about 4e, and if Pathfinder follows along the same design model that is a good thing for Pathfinder players and DMs. Especially DMs.

One of the awesome things about 4E is its built in compatability with prior editions?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Using an old 3.5 module an npc and a PF character both need to try to notice an ambush before they walk into it. The 3.5 npc rolls 1d20+ Spot, the PF character rolls 1d20+ perception. Both compare their result to the DC.

Truth.

Personally I add the 3.5 (Spot + Listen) and divide by 2 and that becomes the perception rank. But it's something that I'm just able to look at and do in my head. Even if I wasn't able to do it in my head jotting down 2 numbers adding them and then dividing by 2 is something that most people should be able to do without slowing down their game, right?

Running a 3.5 module using PF requires zero adaptation.
Anyone who finds it in the least daunting probably should not be DMing in the first place. Not because they can't handle it but because of the mindset to create something that needs to be handled. A good DM in ANY system needs to be able to roll with vastly more complex issues than anything here.

Seriously.
I ran the first two parts of Burnt Offerings with the Pathfinder Beta rules without really having to do a massive conversion of any sort. Most of the stuff I just do on the fly. *shrugs*

 

[Grymar]

Using an old 3.5 module an npc and a PF character both need to try to notice an ambush before they walk into it. The 3.5 npc rolls 1d20+ Spot, the PF character rolls 1d20+ perception. Both compare their result to the DC.

Running a 3.5 module using PF requires zero adaptation.

Exactly.

I pull up a griffon off of the SRD for my pathfinder game...what do I need to change?

Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 7d10+21 (59 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+15
Attack: Bite +11 melee (2d6+4)
Full Attack: Bite +11 melee (2d6+4) and 2 claws +8 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce, rake 1d6+2
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 8
Skills: Jump +8, Listen +6, Spot +10
Feats: Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Temperate hills
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pride (6-10)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 8-10 HD (Large); 11-21 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: +3 (cohort)

Size? No change
HD? No change
Init? No change
Speed? No change
Armor Class? No change
BAB/Grapple? Rename Grapple CMB.
Attack? No change
Full Attack? No change
Space/Reach? No change
Special Qualities? No change
Saves? No change
Abilities? No change
Skills? Jump becomes Athletics, 3+1/2HD+STR is how I've been doing it...+10. Listen/Spot become Perception, which is +8.
Feats? No change
Environment? No change
Organization? No change
Challenge Rating? No change
Treasure? No change
Alignment? No change
Advancement? No change
Level Adjustment? No change

So I just converted a standard 3.5 creature to pathfinder and it took...1 minute? Less, even if I didn't type out all of the "no change" text. I generally do this on the fly, taking 15 seconds to calculate the skill changes if it comes up since so often I don't even need skills for monsters.

Yes, it would be more difficult if it was an awakened Griffon with four levels of cleric and three of wizard, but still it would take very little time.

{edit: formatting fixes}

 

[chaotix42]

One of the awesome things about 4E is its built in compatability with prior editions?

No, Dragonblade is saying one of the awesome things about 4e is that PCs and NPCs use mostly different sets of rules. Check the quote in his post.

 

[Caliber]

Pretty much what I felt.

3.0 and 3.5 were pretty compatible; you could make the same arguments people are offering here for 3.5 to PFRPG for 3.0 to 3.5. But me and the good capn here can't have been the only people to find said "compatibility" intensely irritating. How many times did things need to be double checked because no one knew if it had changed or not? The example above about Detect Magic is a perfect showcase here. Someone at the table remembers it changed, but not precisely how. Things grind down as we look up how it changed. Multiply that out for dozens of different rules, over and over again.

It is much easier for me to just learn a new ruleset; the rules in 4E I have the most trouble grokking are generally those which are similar to 3E rules, or analogues. I still catch myself trying to 5' step as a free action, frex. YMMV and whatever though.

 

[BryonD]

No, Dragonblade is saying one of the awesome things about 4e is that PCs and NPCs use mostly different sets of rules. Check the quote in his post.

My bad. I went and got myself hung up on the context of the conversation.


Yes, in 4E npcs use different rules.
In context, the statement that it does not cause an incompatibility if npcs are built a different way than pcs is radically different then the total different utility idea that 4E embraces.


Somehow the requirement of removal of context for the pro-4e claim to fit in seems quite poetic.

 

[Knight Otu]

Detect Magic in 3.0 required a spellcraft roll to know what school the spell was from and allowed you to see an aura even if you could not see the item; Detect Magic in 3.5 allows the caster to know the school instantly but requires that you be able to see the item to see the aura. So for all tense and purposes 3.0 Detect Magic is a different spell than 3.5 Detect Magic, but they serve the same purpose. That's what makes them compatable.

Bad example, actually. I'm looking at it, and detect magic barely changed, in fact, and is almost like a copy&paste from my 3.0 PHB and my 3.5 PHB. The most notable changes are the area and the length certain auras linger. You'd probably want something like scrying, which required a healthy rewrite.

But yeah, from the looks of it, Pathfinder should be compatible with 3.5. I'm not judging whether it is a "problematic" compatibility as with 3.0->3.5, though. I'm not familiar enough with those rules.

(And while it's kind of hard to make meaningful changes that don't change things, I can agree with the sentiment that the 3.5 changes were too much of fiddly details. It changed too much too little, in a sense.)

 

[dmccoy1693]

Bad example, actually.

Dang homebrewed version. Sometimes its been so long that you use the real version that you forget. Oh well.