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Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!
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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 8347947" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>I've never liked that, since these gods generally don't live on the Material Plane, they live out on the Outer Planes somewhere. If you go to their divine domain they <em>are</em> greater or lesser or whatever. It may be true that they are a greater power, but can only manifest a lesser power or demipower avatar form on worlds where they have less influence, and that they can only extend their divine influence to a certain level based on their influence a particular world, but they can't personally <em>be</em> a greater power <em>and </em>a lesser power at once. Or at least, if they can, I'm going to need a D&D published philosophical proposal of how that would work, and how it doesn't wreck all the previous lore of the game. (I'm not saying it's impossible to come up with one, I'm just saying I don't intend to entertain the idea without such a proposal backing it up.)</p><p></p><p>And saying they are "beyond mortal understanding" is also a cop out that wrecks previous lore. In many editions of the game gods could be fought and (at least temporarily) killed by mortals. They walked and talked like people, in addition to whatever powers they had and however many avatars they may have been able to have at a time. The fact that there is a ascending level of power from "barely more than mortal" to "super-deity" is an established thing, so any explanation can't place all gods too far above mortal understanding to make sense of. Some of the books in the Planescape line tried to treat all deities as transcendently powerful, but it wasn't able to really stick with it, because it had all the pre-Planescape lore it was attempting to incorporate that just wouldn't let that fly (worked fine though to say that's the unreliable narrative from Sigil-folk, especially since the books were often flavored in the Sigil Cant anyway). If they want to get creative and think of ways they can make these new claims somehow fit with previous lore, I'll wait and look at it. As of now, I have to reject these terse sentences from the DMG rather than rejecting 40 years of an interesting setting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 8347947, member: 6677017"] I've never liked that, since these gods generally don't live on the Material Plane, they live out on the Outer Planes somewhere. If you go to their divine domain they [I]are[/I] greater or lesser or whatever. It may be true that they are a greater power, but can only manifest a lesser power or demipower avatar form on worlds where they have less influence, and that they can only extend their divine influence to a certain level based on their influence a particular world, but they can't personally [I]be[/I] a greater power [I]and [/I]a lesser power at once. Or at least, if they can, I'm going to need a D&D published philosophical proposal of how that would work, and how it doesn't wreck all the previous lore of the game. (I'm not saying it's impossible to come up with one, I'm just saying I don't intend to entertain the idea without such a proposal backing it up.) And saying they are "beyond mortal understanding" is also a cop out that wrecks previous lore. In many editions of the game gods could be fought and (at least temporarily) killed by mortals. They walked and talked like people, in addition to whatever powers they had and however many avatars they may have been able to have at a time. The fact that there is a ascending level of power from "barely more than mortal" to "super-deity" is an established thing, so any explanation can't place all gods too far above mortal understanding to make sense of. Some of the books in the Planescape line tried to treat all deities as transcendently powerful, but it wasn't able to really stick with it, because it had all the pre-Planescape lore it was attempting to incorporate that just wouldn't let that fly (worked fine though to say that's the unreliable narrative from Sigil-folk, especially since the books were often flavored in the Sigil Cant anyway). If they want to get creative and think of ways they can make these new claims somehow fit with previous lore, I'll wait and look at it. As of now, I have to reject these terse sentences from the DMG rather than rejecting 40 years of an interesting setting. [/QUOTE]
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