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<blockquote data-quote="Cybit" data-source="post: 5957647" data-attributes="member: 66111">4E can be slower up until about 10th level in my experience.&nbsp; Basically, the thing that slows down combat in ALL systems are options.&nbsp; Player choice paralysis.Been running a 4E game for years now, and combats were kinda slow (one fight per night after an hour or so of narrative), until I made players stick to one character.&nbsp; After about six months, when they had gotten into a groove of what to do, they were pretty fast.&nbsp; Same group of players, into PF, the first ten levels, combats were short and quick, but once the casters started getting options, it got slow.&nbsp; (Thankfully, years of running 4E had taught me how to entertain myself while players figured out what to do next)4E Essentials makes the game run MUCH, MUCH faster, and as an Encounters DM, I love the fact they stick to the essentials classes.&nbsp; A fight can usually take 30-45 minutes even at low level with new players in essentials.&nbsp; If you're going to start 4E, I'd highly suggest essentials first, until your players get used to their characters.Having DM'd 3/3.5//4 for some time now (PF was DM'd at a convention), I'm convinced that it has far more to do with choices than anything else.&nbsp; It explains why 4E starts slow, but combat time really doesn't increase too terribly much at higher levels, while PF is super fast for the first...5 levels, and then exponentially slows down once people start getting options.&nbsp; Given a magic wand, I wish I had started using timers on players during their turns much sooner than I did.&nbsp; (For both games).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cybit, post: 5957647, member: 66111"] 4E can be slower up until about 10th level in my experience. Basically, the thing that slows down combat in ALL systems are options. Player choice paralysis. Been running a 4E game for years now, and combats were kinda slow (one fight per night after an hour or so of narrative), until I made players stick to one character. After about six months, when they had gotten into a groove of what to do, they were pretty fast. Same group of players, into PF, the first ten levels, combats were short and quick, but once the casters started getting options, it got slow. (Thankfully, years of running 4E had taught me how to entertain myself while players figured out what to do next) 4E Essentials makes the game run MUCH, MUCH faster, and as an Encounters DM, I love the fact they stick to the essentials classes. A fight can usually take 30-45 minutes even at low level with new players in essentials. If you're going to start 4E, I'd highly suggest essentials first, until your players get used to their characters. Having DM'd 3/3.5//4 for some time now (PF was DM'd at a convention), I'm convinced that it has far more to do with choices than anything else. It explains why 4E starts slow, but combat time really doesn't increase too terribly much at higher levels, while PF is super fast for the first...5 levels, and then exponentially slows down once people start getting options. Given a magic wand, I wish I had started using timers on players during their turns much sooner than I did. (For both games). [/QUOTE]

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