Is picking spells to counter the DM's tactics undermining the fun of the game?

[BSF]

Chaotic rulings, instahouserulomatics and the RATBASTARD line of DM/GM's all suffer from a lack of respect for their players and their intelligence. If players find a great way to deal with something and go all out against anyone suspicious then fine, but dont apply an unknown houserule because its not going your way. Suggest it first. Sounds like the DM needs to meet some good GM's I have

Umm, not to nitpick too much, but this has absolutely nothing to do with being a RatBastardDM. RBDMs make the game fun because they do everything by the book, create tough as hell challenges, integrate past-present-future story elements and make PCs earn their victories. RBDMs don't punish PCs/players for being smart, they reward them for being smart.

Back to the original question: ThoughtBubble, you aren't going over the line. Your PC would certainly take such precautions. But I agree with the majoprity here that the game looks to be spiralling towards self-destruction. If you care about the game, I would stop and talk with the DM and see if he is starting to feel adversarial. Gaming should be a collaborative effort where everyone is having fun.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Shots to the face? Well that's just mean.

But it would be just a perfect way to make your DM stop! Just aim a Melfs Acid Arrow to the face of every enemy u fight, render em all blind, or something devastating like that and im sure he will rethink the rule. After all, it should be much easier to do than breaking a bone.

 

[Nifft]

Agreed - my adversarial game detector has just exploded.

Something else must be wrong for the DM to pull such a stunt.

How do you break the adversarial game pattern? I'm in a game where the DM is starting to take monster losses a bit too personally, and he's been an adversarial player too.

-- N

 

[Vocenoctum]

So, yeah. Obviously abusing the house-rule isn't the thing to do. But is finding a counter to the situations that are plaguing us an equally bad idea?

Explain to your DM that you play for fun. You are not there to suffer whatever whim he strikes you with. Explain that the constant pressure and escalating move/countermove is not enjoyable for you, and you'd like him to take a step back and make sure he's not misintepreting "challenge the players" as "screw the players over".

If the DM has such an adversarial position, and won't step away from it, then I'd just pull out now. It will only get worse.
Realistically, if the DM wants to mess you up, he will. House rules aren't needed, you can just bump into opposition that greatly outmatchs you.

 

[DonTadow]

How do you break the adversarial game pattern? I'm in a game where the DM is starting to take monster losses a bit too personally, and he's been an adversarial player too.

-- N

I don't want to clown on the DM as we don't know his motives. Throwing everything at including the kitchen sink maybe something well along in the plot that he has yet to reveal. Do any of these creatures have anything in common? What is the current plot of the adventure so far? My pcs are currently undergowing a problem where they have peeved off a priest whom , at level 19, can almost scry on them anytime even if they take proper precautisions. I say do what you got to do to protect the party. Now if he doesnt have any real reason to link all these evils together then I'd be peeved off. It's not fare ifhe's justopening up the MM andthrowing whatever's in there atcha.

However, the houserule thing is what is upsetting. It reminds me of another thread i'm in.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2287243#post2287243

It is pretty much a consensus that houserules should be discussed and implemnted well before the start. The good dms even let the rule be tested a few games to see if its fare and everyone likesit. I think your gut reaction was, only if i get to do it, but now it seems like you'r e regretting saying that. I dont think the game is sprialing though. Pul him aside and talk to him a bit. Let him know what you think and believe. It might be time to save it.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

How do you break the adversarial game pattern? I'm in a game where the DM is starting to take monster losses a bit too personally, and he's been an adversarial player too.

-- N

Well I don't really know the answer to that question, I mean, my pov comes from the fact that _I_ was the chief antagonist in our little adversarial game but _I_ was also the one getting the least fun out of it.

My solution as I saw it was to:
- Rebuild player/DM trust by getting real transparent with my rules & NPC motivations. I'd spell out stuff & justify development/reactions during play at the expense of slowing it down. These days I do it at the end of session because the trust is there & it's better then.
- Destroy the main antagonism by removing my adversary. I took time out & they continued some campaign but without my management it fell to pieces (a calculated risk) & a couple of weeks later I reformed the group less 1. I spoke to him later about this and we agreed that we didn't want to game together.
- End the old campaign and start afresh.
- Run NPCs in a more detached manner, like I used to do before I regressed.

Thoughbubbles game sounds awfully similar but he made the mistake of agreeing to a loony houserule probably on the spur of the moment with a lot of emotion charging the air I bet. I call it loony because it has effectively thrown out the entire combat chapter and replaced it with DM fiat - and the players can't rely on it working the same for them like the NPCs because it has to go through the DM filter.

A DM pulling stunts like this is just not trustworthy.

 

[Steel_Wind]

The guys who are quitting the game over the body part rule are being WAY excessive in my opinion.

The DM just got a little harried and you carved up his encounter without breaking a sweat. It happens. DMs are people too. The DM is probably a friend of yours I expect. Right?

Lighten up guys.

The paranoia is wholly justified and appropriate. IT is not metagaming inspired.

The body part damage rule seems to be an ill-considered rule which I expect the DM in a moment of calm would probably, on reflection, reconsider and do away with.

It's best that you don't use it, IMO. Thinking up a really nasty way to use it to your advantage and hinting that you and the guys have thought of WAY more ways to use it - PRIOR to the beginning of the next sesssion - and the offer to maybe not do it at all should clear all that up without making a big contorversy over it.

No need to make a big deal over this stuff. The suggestion to walk out on the game and the DM is entirely melodramatic. Deal with it on a low key basis and move on.

Friends + Good Game = FUN That is the point. Remember?

 

[Saeviomagy]

The DM just got a little harried and you carved up his encounter without breaking a sweat. It happens. DMs are people too. The DM is probably a friend of yours I expect. Right?

And people in such a position should learn to rule with their head, not with their heart.

The paranoia is wholly justified and appropriate. IT is not metagaming inspired.

Agreed

The body part damage rule seems to be an ill-considered rule which I expect the DM in a moment of calm would probably, on reflection, reconsider and do away with.

It's best that you don't use it, IMO. Thinking up a really nasty way to use it to your advantage and hinting that you and the guys have thought of WAY more ways to use it - PRIOR to the beginning of the next sesssion - and the offer to maybe not do it at all should clear all that up without making a big contorversy over it.

I figure the DM already took his cheap shot...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Sorry to be the cynic, but I get the feeling that, left unchecked, your game is approaching an ante upping meltdown phase. I'd go with the Jesters advice and talk to the DM and quick like.

I concur.

Of course, any DM whose style is so predictable that players can (and will) pick spells accordingly has already made some serious miscalculations.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Few things annoy me more than having a DM suddenly spring a house rule on the group, particularly when the house rule is obviously aimed at making the PCs less effective in combat.

I say that the gloves have come off, and you should do everything you can to counter the DM's tactics.