Is piracy a serious issue for game developers?

[Jacen]

But if I stole his right to make copies, the copyright, shouldn't I now be the holder of the copyright? I stole it, right?

Of course, that didn't happen. I don't have the right, so I couldnt've stolen it.

No you didn't because you already had that right. Fair use right - it is said in law that person is allowed to make copy for his own use. No matter what is the source (original, copy, "illegal" copy, piratted pdf, d/l mp3 etc.). And I need to point out that computer programs are exceptions they aren't allowed to be copied. Anyway law says that I have right and I do pay for that right that extra tax in blank medias be it CD-R, DVD-R, cameras memory card!, blank cassete, rocordable digi-TV receiver - and not that cameras memory card stores only pictures takem BY ME and I own the copyright and still I have to pay for government. Digi-TV box has limited room that can't be replaced and thus that copy is not staying forever and yet fee is collected.

But thats a minor point for me, and the law of the land actually agrees with me (and here even goes as far to tell me that I'm just making fair use of the content, pretty far from thieving) so there's no truth to saying I stole anything.

Why are people so adamant in claiming that copying stuff is thieving, BTW? Trying to bolster their argument about the legality or moral rightness of such? Please .. thats so lame. Argument your case on the facts at hand, not yelling "filthy thieveses" in gollum voice

Yes we are just using our rights as told in law and paying for it and still ppl here are shouting THIEVES!. Life sucks But it would be nice ppl to understand that even you are living in big country its laws aren't global.

I know that RPG authors doesn't get any cent from that levy collected, but that is one more reason to buy the original if you like the product or use it.

Well I can live without buying pdfs. I quit buing music CDs after copyprotection came. Nowadays one can't be sure if it is CD or some plastic disc that only resamples CD - haven't even d/l any mp3s after that. There is enough music on radio and in my collection of over 200 CD. Damn that sarcasm is hard... that looks more like a threat made by a kid - that is not intention. Just trying to point out that I do not need them. I like them and like to play but no not need. Hmmmm... luxury products or something was the term.

 

[Psionicist]

While these projects are great, not one is used by any more than 5 to 10 percent of all computer users

I doubt it. Every computer user with an internet connection use open source software indirectly. Apache for example is used by over 65% of all web servers in the world. When you use ENWorld, you are being served by open source software (Apache, PHP and MySQL). Even if you don't use ENWorld, most ISP's uses BIND for their DNS servers. Open source software translate the enworld.org name to an IP address. These are not small projects. These projects are the very foundation of the Internet. Not Malhavoc Press (nothing wrong with Malhavoc though ).

As for user software: Firefox has a market share of over 11% and increasing, it's much higher in some countries (30%+ in Finland for example). BitTorrent amounts for over 35% of the Internet traffic worldwide ( http://in.tech.yahoo.com/041103/137/2ho4i.html ), don't know what that means though. Windows network code is based on open source software from BSD but with a different license.

This is a huge movement, not an insignficant 5%.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I doubt it. Every computer user with an internet connection use open source software indirectly. Apache for example is used by over 65% of all web servers in the world. When you use ENWorld, you are being served by open source software (Apache, PHP and MySQL).

Damn you beat me to it. I was going to say Apache has the lions share of the web server market.

 

[Sammael]

That's probably because IIS sucks really bad. Unfortunately, we use .NET web services and ASP.NET at work, so IIS is a must. Bah.

 

[Falkus]

Ever heard of OpenOffice, Firefox, GIMP, Python, Miranda, BitTorrent, DC++, Thunderbird, Media Player Classic, XVID, phpBB, PHP, Apache etc?

And have you ever heard of Windows, Doom III, Half-Life 2, Command and Conquer or Neverwinter Nights?

These are all open source projects.

Whoop de ****ing doo. Do you actually have a point to make?

This is a huge movement, not an insignficant 5%.

The vast majority of decent quality software produced in the world is not open source. Especially computer games and other entertainment. Regardless of whatever delusions a guy might have about a world without copyrights, the cold hard fact is that modern entertianment requires significant resources to produce.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There are ways of compensating authors and designers (and researchers, if we wish to maintain that argument) that don't involve selling their works directly for profit-- and given how rampant piracy is, it is in the best interests of everyone who makes their money in any information industry to discover those ways.

I would love to see some of these compensatory models.

What compensates the writer, his editor, etc. for the work he does in creating a work if not the money he needs to support his family? What about the musician, his producer, his engineer, his mixer, etc?

Should creative types be government employees who get an annual income while the world may freely download their stuff?? If so, do they get differing sums based upon the popularity of their work?

If that's your model, I'll just say its a lot less fair or efficient than letting the free market do its magic. The money used to pay the salaries of creators of intellectual property will have to come from taxes, and in all likelyhood, the sum they would recieve would be MUCH less than they currently do. Or, to put it another way: if you think its unfair for a musician to take home $0.25/CD sold...how is it MORE fair for them to take home $0.07/CD sold?

PS: S'mon...why put "Entertainment Lawyer" in quotes? Yes, UK laws differ...but in the US, "theft" isn't limited to physical property...witness our current fuss about ID theft. It, too, is just information... Ditto our recent No Electronic Theft Act of 1997, which expressly gives criminal liability to the intentional distribution of copied software over the Net.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I would love to see some of these compensatory models.

So would I. Unfortunately, I haven't discovered them, either.

What compensates the writer, his editor, etc. for the work he does in creating a work if not the money he needs to support his family? What about the musician, his producer, his engineer, his mixer, etc?

When referring to compensation in this thread, I am still referring to monetary compensation. Money's the primary form of compensation for most useful work in most (if not exactly all) of the world-- and the few holdouts do not have social models I would care to emulate.

I would like to see a world where this is not the case-- but that's so far beyond the scope of this thread as to be not worth discussing.

Should creative types be government employees who get an annual income while the world may freely download their stuff?? If so, do they get differing sums based upon the popularity of their work?

That's one solution. I share your reservations about how effective it would be-- and there are obvious questions about the quality and integrity of the art produced in such a system.

The ransom model has its share of problems, too, but it's something worth investigating.

You might argue that these models are worse than the ideal pay-per-copy system-- the one in which piracy doesn't exist and everyone pays for what they use-- but as the existence of this thread proves, we don't get to work with the ideal.

Before you argue that I'm part of the problem-- because, for the most part, I can't say that I'm not-- remember that I'm participating in this thread because I consider myself an ethical, responsible human being, as do the others participating here. Even if we conceded the argument today, ceased all file-sharing activities, and became model consumers, there are the millions of people using filesharing software to download copyrighted materials who do not care about the the ethics of what they're doing. There are the bastards burning whole CDs of data or music and selling them for $4 a pop without paying a dime to the people who created the data or the music.

If the game designers and authors wish to continue to be paid-- and they're certainly justified in that wish-- they have to realize that the pay-per-copy model is, at best, a temporary measure. It's been propped up by new media technologies, and received a boost from the online market, but the ability to make flawless reproductions of information online is going to kill it eventually-- and there's nothing any of us can do to stop it.

Or, to put it another way: if you think its unfair for a musician to take home $0.25/CD sold...how is it MORE fair for them to take home $0.07/CD sold?

You're walking this pirate down the wrong plank. I'm not too worried about musicians with signed record deals, and I don't concern myself (too much) with the deals made between creator and publisher.

I also think, that is I were concerned about that, that engaging in piracy wouldn't be the correct solution-- because, after all, if they get $0.25 per CD sold now, and would get $0.07 per CD sold under some government-sponsored program, they'd still get $0.00 per CD downloaded off the Internet.

I'm no Robin Hood, and I know that. I'm just a guy caught with his conscience pulling him in two different directions-- and trying to defend the compromise he's making from people who don't acknowledge one of the ideals he's trying to uphold.

 

[Ketjak]

But I can certainly understand *why* people download stuff off places like Bearshare. What I'll never understand is why people take the time to scan an entire freaking book into .pdf to make it available on something like Bearshare. Why are some people so devoted towards being evil?

In the piracy community, status is measured by the quality and speed of one's work. Theirs is a community like any other, albeit with a different focus than many of us will find acceptable.

The effort they go to is no different than gaining status in an MMO, after all.

- Ket

 

[Ace]

Lots of twisting and turning to validate what people know good and well is stealing.

And if all information is made free, whose going to bother making more information.

I am not pro copyright infringement (though I would like to see a 28 year limit and an abandonware clause) howevever I think your statement is a bit wrong here. Money is not the only reason to make stuff

In fact a lot of information made just for the fun of sharing or to satify a personal itch or whatever reason.
The web is full of bad to great fiction, art, music, reviews, computer software and gaming stuff all free and legal for the taking. In some cases they are promos or adds for a sale product, others are released just because computers make it very easy.

. In not that many years (IMO) most forms of information will have a low cost of entry. Since Information (as versus hard goods) will have a pretty low cost of entry this means a lot of people contributing and even idf they contribute just a spot there will soon be more than anyone can even use.

Eventually it will be possible to use a cheap PC to do gene sequencing with software paid for with tax payers money

This may be a bad idea mind but it does mean that the current value of information is in flux

Now IMNSHO there are good reasons to hide/license information -- mainly national security ones (there are people who would misuse the knowledge of how to create certain weapons FREX) and possibly ones related to the need to create profit to remburse funding of high capitalization projects such as medicine --

The former reason will probably last indefinetly but the later-- don't be too sure

if you want a media example check out Star Trek New Voyages

http://www.newvoyages.com/

This is a crude version of tommorows home movie -- the kind of thing that someday may be so easy to make it will be made in large numbers (possibly by expert systems) and will knock the wind out of media. It look almost as good as a production from the 1960's and was basically a garage project

Unless the state smashes (which is too political to discuss in this thread) them other technologies will fall in line and the garage inventor will return

Until then -- well Stay within the law and please don't steal PDF's especially from the little guy. It does hurt our friends and fellow travelers (or is it Travellers in the hobby

 

[Babylon Knight]

I think the quote feature is overused