D&D 5E (2014) Is Point Buy Balanced?

[Lakesidefantasy]

Is Point Buy Balanced? I'm not asking if Point Buy is more balanced?, but rather, is it totally balanced?

There are over 54,000° combinations°° of ability scores. From 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, to 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18; and everything in between. With Point Buy this gets reduced to a few hundred that are equivalent to 27 points.

One of those combinations is the Standard Array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Another is 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12. Are these two combinations balanced against each other? Would two characters created with these combinations be equally effective? Would two characters of identical Race, Background, and Class built with each of these combinations be equally effective?

They may be very few score combinations that are as stark as the ones above. It may be true that 90% of combinations are balanced against each other. But, then again, maybe it's more like 50%.

Food for thought: What high score is considered the minimum for an effective build? 16? 15? 13? I once was told characters need at least a 14 in constitution alone to be effective.

Anyway what do you think? Is Point Buy totally balanced?°°°

° If I recall correctly.
°° As opposed to permutations, of which there are billions.
°°° Remember, any comparison to rolling is irrelevant because this thread is about the balance of the Point Buy method compared to itself.

 

[aco175]

Some broad generalizations. What I might consider effective or balanced is another persons weaksauce or overpowered. In another thread someone mentioned having a 30 or 34 point buy since 27 is too little for their style of play.

I tend to use the standard array and have the highest stat a 15 or 16 after racial +2/+1. I could have a 14 and be ok with it, but likely have a couple 14s if not having something higher.

I'm guessing that there is only a dozen or so combinations that are chosen 99% of the time with point buy.

Quick search shows the standard array 15,14,13,12,10,8. The Min/Max of 15,15,15,8,8,8. The Balanced array 13,13,13,12,12,12.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I find this a weird question, because I don't think it follows the intent of point buy. Not all possible combinations are equally good, but that was never the expectation.

In term of actual play at the table - if anything it might be too balanced since it's easy enough to get good scores on two or three abilities, and that's all that really matters.

 

[Deset Gled]

One of those combinations is the Standard Array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Another is 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12. Are these two combinations balanced against each other? Would two characters created with these combinations be equally effective? Would two characters of identical Race, Background, and Class built with each of these combinations be equally effective?

That's not how balance works.

There are character builds that benefit from the imbalance of asymmetric ability scores. There are different character builds that benefit from flatter ability scores. Two options are not balanced against each by trying to force a round peg from one into the square hole of another and seeing how well they perform.

Balance is better tested by learning what possible conditions can exist where one option becomes significantly more powerful than other standard options, then determining what relevance those conditions have to a standard game.

 

[Clint_L]

I find this a weird question, because I don't think it follows the intent of point buy. Not all possible combinations are equally good, but that was never the expectation.

In term of actual play at the table - if anything it might be too balanced since it's easy enough to get good scores on two or three abilities, and that's all that really matters.

It is balanced in that it produces about the same totals as standard array and an average 4d6drop1 set of rolls. Those are the three “official” options described in the PHB. It obviously allows you a bit more fine tuning than standard array, while 4d6 drop one allows for more variety and randomness.

I typically let players use either point buy or standard array, but there are about as many character generation methods as there are DMs, and all that matters is that your group is happy with the result.

 

[payn]

“Totally” as in all possibilities equally effective? No.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Point Buy is totally balanced, but the stats themselves are not. Depending on what class/subclass you're playing, there are always better stats than others

 

[Mephista]

Is Point Buy Balanced? I'm not asking if Point Buy is more balanced?, but rather, is it totally balanced?

At some point, we need to set a baseline.

Now, no ability generation is going to be balanced. This isn't point buy's faults, but the classes'. Some classes are MAD, some are SAD. Monk relies much more on its attributes than, say, the Rogue. All casters come off as single-attribute dependent at first glance, but then there's Concentration and AC (even heavy armor needs Strength) considerations.

The only way to achieve balance is to make everything the same.

I once had a teacher that talked about society living in a tension between Security and Freedoms. We make laws and rules because it keeps people safe and fair. However, for every rule, it cuts down on your choices and intrudes on your privacy. You can't have both - if things are perfectly fair, then you can't be free. If you have absolute freedom, then the world won't be a fair one. Yes, this sounds suspiciously like Lawful vs Chaotic. Yes, the class joked about it. Moving on.

There's a similar tension between everything being balanced, and giving players freedom with character builds. The latter innately creates imbalance. The best we can do is find some kind of balance between the two extremes, and what balance works changes between groups. That is why we have different character generation options.

There are over 54,000° combinations°° of ability scores. From 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, to 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18; and everything in between. With Point Buy this gets reduced to a few hundred that are equivalent to 27 points.

One of those combinations is the Standard Array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Another is 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12. Are these two combinations balanced against each other? Would two characters created with these combinations be equally effective? Would two characters of identical Race, Background, and Class built with each of these combinations be equally effective?

Naturally no. The purpose of point buy isn't to make every combination equal, but to offer people a greater measure of freedom over the character creation process.

They may be very few score combinations that are as stark as the ones above. It may be true that 90% of combinations are balanced against each other. But, then again, maybe it's more like 50%.

You need to put these numbers into a meaningful context - ie, inside of a class. The combos that are balanced for a Fighter aren't the same ones that will be balance for the Monk.

Food for thought: What high score is considered the minimum for an effective build? 16? 15? 13? I once was told characters need at least a 14 in constitution alone to be effective.

Depends on the table. Certainly, I would not take anyone that said you needed a 14 Constitution to be effective seriously at the tables I played at. In general, though, I always considered having 16 in your main stats to be a good starting point for characters, then more flex with the others.

 

[FrogReaver]

If we assume the process goes something like this.

1. Create otherwise identical characters with different point buy arrays. (Same mechanics and personality even though stats often are used by players to inform personality and roleplay and even sometimes most effective ability choices).
2. Face identical obstacles (not practical unless characters are on a total railroad as the different stats should have some impact on the specific obstacles).

Then no, the different point buy arrays will not yield totally balanced characters as their will be many sets of obstacles where one character outperforms the other. (Though you could mean are their equal sets of obstacles where each character outperforms the other? That's much less clear to me as it would seem to involve determining different orders of infinity which doesn't seem differentiable for a D&D game).

However, for a particular set of obstacles in a campaign it will be impossible for a player to tell whether the 15,14,13,12,10,8 or 13,13,13,12,12,12 will perform better except in hindsight (as the obstacles are not known ahead of the campaign). For example, a single encounter against intellect devourers could easily skew an 8 int instead of a 12 as much worse for that campaign than the difference in primary stats.

And some might even conclude that if for a random campaign a player cannot pick for certain which point buy array will perform better that the arrays are totally balanced in some sense.

Also, if one were to drop the assumption that all obstacles are identical, because as the rolls diverge one would suspect the campaign will as well. And doubly so if we also drop the assumption that the characters with different point buy arrays will be played identically then I think those are additional reasons it is impossible to tell which is actually better. And triply so if the GM balances encounters to the players and characters in the game.

As such, I think the question about 'totally balanced' is flawed, because there are many notions of 'total balance' and it's not at all clear which notion the OP is asking about.

 

[Stormonu]

It's more balanced than rolling attributes, less than using Standard Array.

In the end, it comes down to personal preference and the kind of game you want. I've seen one game where the PCs started with all 18's, and one 19. That was some time back in 3E, BTW.