D&D 5E (2014) Is Point Buy Balanced?

[Bagpuss]

Is Point Buy Balanced? I'm not asking if Point Buy is more balanced?, but rather, is it totally balanced?

One of those combinations is the Standard Array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Another is 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12. Are these two combinations balanced against each other? Would two characters created with these combinations be equally effective? Would two characters of identical Race, Background, and Class built with each of these combinations be equally effective?

The thing is with point buy they don't need to be balanced, as the player has the choice as to what suits their character best, both mechanically or even if they wanted a more balanced character for RP reasons.

If you did random rolls and came up with one of those two you are playing a straight human fighter there is no doubt the first array is better than the second in nearly all situations. But being random you wouldn't get the choice.

 

[ECMO3]

More relevant to the topic, I feel it important to point out that while rolling techically has more possibilities, many of them are either unplayable or absurdly broken and should not be considered valid options.

If you agree to rolling abilities then it is a valid option.

As fun as it is to envision all 18s, I sincerely doubt any DM would allow that character to ever see play at a table,

I have not seen a player with all 18s but I have seen them with three 18s and we did play them. If we are playing a game that is roll abilities and I roll really well I would be pretty peeved if you booted my PC or made me reroll.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I would even go so far as to say that individually optimized characters will be a LOT less effective then a good group build. And that's not just about min-maxing, but playing characters that mesh well with each other.

OR an imbalance in the party where both started with the same resources, one went for a build optimized for roleplaying and the other optimized purely for combat. A mismatch in expectations and general incompatibility will do more damage then any imbalance in any system.

i'd wish 5e was a game where the three pillars were equally balanced in worth, use and nuance that two characters one optimized for combat and one for social (and a third for exploration) are balanced and of asymmetrical yet equal worth to each other.

 

[Clint_L]

i'd wish 5e was a game where the three pillars were equally balanced in worth, use and nuance that two characters one optimized for combat and one for social (and a third for exploration) are balanced and of asymmetrical yet equal worth to each other.

It can be done - Matt Mercer, for example, runs far fewer combats and has a lot more social and exploration play happening - but D&D does tend to default towards combat as the ultimate means of dispute resolution, even in his games. It's always been this way - more so, back in 1e, at least as I experienced it. Back then every TSR module was all combat and traps.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It’s less easy, but you can still make a very ineffective PC in PF2. Especially, if you are trying to spread your stats out.

The only time I've seen what I thought was an ineffective PF2e character was people who actively avoided what the games tell you is needed for the class you're playing; while a point or two on the roll matters, its not a game breaker.

(If someone builds a character the game tells you needs attributes X and Y and you deliberately lowball them, I think that's a self-inflicted wound. But I've spread my attributes around and still found I could hold up my end, I just made sure that those core attributes were among the ones I was emphasizing.)

 

[Xeviat]

Long thread already, so apologies if someone already said it.

5E's point buy is pretty close to the statistical average of 6*(4d6, drop the lowest), but it's just a little behind standard rolls IF the DM allows rerolling garbage sets (which 3E had defined as nothing above 13 or cumulative bonus less than +1 iirc). If rerolls are allowed, the average rolls go up more.

Whether different point buys are balanced against each other is hard to say. That answer actually depends on how high level the campaign will get to and which feats you're interested in. The game math wants* you to start with around a +3 mod for your attack stat and it hopes* you get that mod to +5 eventually. With Point Buy and background bonuses, you could start with a 16 or 17 and get to 20 by 8th level if you don't mind taking "ability score increase" as your feat/s. If there aren't any tests you want, you could get a 20 if you start with a 10, so a 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13 spread, boosted to 12, 12, 12, 12, 14, 14 could be "viable" if you really wanted high saving throws or something.

I tend to go with the 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 spread with the intent to bump the 15 and 14 to 16s with my background boosts.