D&D 5E (2014) Is Point Buy Balanced?

[CleverNickName]

Balance is relative to other characters at the table, not in isolation.

That's what I was asking about. If two characters at the table have the same six numbers, aren't they both equally balanced?

I'm struggling to understand how the method is more balanced than the result, is all.

 

[jmartkdr2]

This is true, they both have the same problem. But we don't talk about Flight Club here.°

Point Buy tacitly promises us that we can make whatever Character we want by allowing us full control over Score placement. But that promise falls short when we are forced to "dump" lower and lower Scores into Abilities we didn't imagine to be a burden.

I think a lot of us just ignore the low scores and continue to imagine our Characters as we like them. This paired with "walking the Chimera" allows us to ignore them because the just don't really matter.

° Although we are past page 30.

Semi-tangentially:

I usually imagine low-strength high-dex characters as being not un-muscled but small; they could throw their weight around but they don't weigh much so it doesn't do anything. So grappling isn't really a good use of an action.

 

[Thomas Shey]

To make sure I understand: if two people have the same six ability scores, but one person generated them with point-buy and the other by rolling 4d6, you would consider only one of them to be unbalanced?

Only one of them would be potentially forced to be unbalanced at least. Misuse of point assignment is a potential in the vast majority of games beause its rare for all attributes to be equally useful for all characters, and that's not even getting into things like breakpointing. But that can be avoided just by having an additional party to suggest how to avoid the problem. Unless the random roll is not really random at all, it will simply insert some problems that can't be adjusted because they aren't permitted to be.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That's what I was asking about. If two characters at the table have the same six numbers, aren't they both equally balanced?

How likely are two people at a table to roll exactly the same six values with random die rolls? I'd suggest its very, very low. Whereas the only thing two people with point assignment need to do is to decide to have the same six values.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Semi-tangentially:

I usually imagine low-strength high-dex characters as being not un-muscled but small; they could throw their weight around but they don't weigh much so it doesn't do anything. So grappling isn't really a good use of an action.

They could also just be rangy and slight; some elements of strength use probably usually involve body mass.

 

[CleverNickName]

How likely are two people at a table to roll exactly the same six values with random die rolls? I'd suggest its very, very low. Whereas the only thing two people with point assignment need to do is to decide to have the same six values.

I'm not explaining myself very well.

Let's say I used point-buy and came up with 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
Bob used the standard array, and so his numbers are 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
Jim rolled 4d6, and he also got 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.

Why is Jim's character not balanced, but the other two are fine? If Jim rolls his stats but tells everyone that he used point-buy, does it become balanced? (I promise I'm not trolling--I genuinely don't understand how identical numbers can have different amounts of balance at the same game table.)

 

[AlViking]

That's what I was asking about. If two characters at the table have the same six numbers, aren't they both equally balanced?

I'm struggling to understand how the method is more balanced than the result, is all.

Of course they could roll the same numbers. That's highly unlikely though.

Meanwhile two people in a group that is rolling are also not going to have the same numbers. Odds are one will be significantly higher than someone else at the table.

Point buy is more balanced when compared to rolling for the group. That's the only balance that matters as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm not explaining myself very well.

Let's say I used point-buy and came up with 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
Bob used the standard array, and so his numbers are 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.

Jim rolled 4d6, and he also got 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.

Why is Jim's character not balanced, but the other two are fine? If Jim rolls his stats but tells everyone that he used point-buy, does it become balanced? (I promise I'm not trolling--I genuinely don't understand how identical numbers can have different amounts of balance at the same game table.)

Identical numbers won't. But the chances you'll get identical numbers with random roll is extremely unlikely.

 

[CleverNickName]

Identical numbers won't. But the chances you'll get identical numbers with random roll is extremely unlikely.

It's most likely that Jim would roll a set of numbers, and then Bob would pick those same numbers with point-buy. They're still the same numbers, though.

I don't want to derail the discussion or be a nuisance; I can drop it. It just makes my head go boing.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It's most likely that Jim would roll a set of numbers, and then Bob would pick those same numbers with point-buy. They're still the same numbers, though.

Assuming he can. Its not like most random methods are constrained enough they won't produce outliers point buy or an array won't have as a possible result.

I don't want to derail the discussion or be a nuisance; I can drop it. It just makes my head go boing.

I don't have a problem continuing it, I'm just having trouble understanding how you can't understand the difference.