Is power attack too powerful?

[Kershek]

In the game I run, one of the players is playing a level 9 Barbarian with 22 Strength (when Raging his strength goes to 26) and a +1 Keen Greatsword. Had Heroisom on as well (+2 to hit). In the first round against a 15 HD monster with 20 AC (at the time), the character raged and attacked twice, power attacking for full, getting criticals on both hits.

Normal: To hit: +18/+13 / Damage: 2d6 + 9 + 1 = 2d6 + 10
Raging: To Hit: +20/+15 / +Damage: 2d6 + 12 + 1 = 2d6 + 13
Power: To Hit: +11/+6 / Damage: 2d6 + 12 + 1 + 18 = 2d6 + 31
Critical Damage from two hits: 8d6 + 124 = 156 damage.

That was a pretty sick amount of damage


B

Yep, I have a player with a half-orc Bbn8/Ftr2 that is pretty similar in damage output. He has a +1 keen adamantine greataxe. He's taking Headlong Rush and plans to be enlarged as much as possible for the reach.

 

[kwiqsilver]

Get Shock Trooper (CW) so you can apply the PA penalty to AC instead of to hit. When you are in a deathless frenzy and your foe is in pieces on the loor, who cares what your AC is?

Holy Shnikies!! I just read that feat! So the revised attack is +35 to hit 2d8 + 98 damage before adding bonuses from a Belt of Giant Strength or magic weapon, Crit threat on a 17 (15 assuming a keen weapon). It's only for one attack, cuz of the charge, but that's a nice attack! Say...isn't there a feat that lets you take a full attack on a charge?
That's with a -28 AC modifier too. Definitely need to get that item made that casts Cure Minor Wounds when I come out of frenzy. (We have a house rule that any healing spell that doesn't bring a character to 1 hp or better still brings him to 0--deathless frenzy will be the ultimate abuse of that rule ).

 

[Celtavian]

re

I don't know if it is too powerful. I do know that prior to the change Power Attack was a rarely used feat. Now, every PC with a two-handed weapon uses Power Attack almost constantly with Paladins benefitting the most when smiting or when they are buffed up with their own spells. Now if they could do the same thin for Dodge, then I would be happy.

 

[Darklone]

Holy Shnikies!! I just read that feat! So the revised attack is +35 to hit 2d8 + 98 damage before adding bonuses from a Belt of Giant Strength or magic weapon, Crit threat on a 17 (15 assuming a keen weapon).

Nope. Imp crit and Keen do not stack anymore.

 

[kwiqsilver]

Nope. Imp crit and Keen do not stack anymore.

They do in our game. None of us agreed with the change, since one represents the character's skill and training, and the other represents a magical enhancement. It'd be like saying Weapon Focus and and Enhancement bonuses don't stack.

 

[Darklone]

They do in our game. None of us agreed with the change, since one represents the character's skill and training, and the other represents a magical enhancement. It'd be like saying Weapon Focus and and Enhancement bonuses don't stack.

Ah, houserule. Don't get me wrong, I use the same houserule, it's just an annoying habit (of me) here to point out apparent mistakes in peoples posts

 

[Gort]

If you wished to, one way of limiting power attack might be to make it like expertise. As much as you want, as long as you don't exceed your BAB or 5, whichever is lower.

Come to think of it, why does CE have the limit while PA doesn't?

 

[Darklone]

If you wished to, one way of limiting power attack might be to make it like expertise. As much as you want, as long as you don't exceed your BAB or 5, whichever is lower.

Come to think of it, why does CE have the limit while PA doesn't?

Because AC as to hit and other things has an upper limit, damage usually not. Power Attack lowers something and increases damage.

20 points to AC are scarcely balanced by anything. (I don't like the C-Exp upgrades without limit).

 

[dshai527]

Even though my groups plays with power attack as it is, we have all felt that it is overpowered for a single feat. I have always thought that a good alternative would be that the feat allows you to take your str bonus for "To hit" away and double your damage bonus. Power attack is one of the few feats that doesn't give a set bonus but rather scales with the character.

 

[frisbeet]

Power attack is one of the few feats that doesn't give a set bonus but rather scales with the character.

Exactly. Not only is Power Attack not too powerful, it is a necessary feat for fighters everywhere (at least those not wielding light weapons).

Necessary for fighter characters whose players debate on forums like this one (and especially the WotC D&D Classes board), trying to make the point that combat feats, especially Power Attack, do scale with leveling (if not as dramatically as some magic user effects) because of the BAB progression. AC doesn't increase in direct x=y+constant proportion to CR; it's less than this (grossly generalizing). BAB does increase in direct x=y proportion to leveling (for a fighter-type), and hence CR. Then it follows that you're more likely to hit appropriately challenging opponents at high levels. If you're more likely to hit, you're more likely to

Do more damage with Power Attack
Cleave
Trip
Grapple
Sunder
etc.

Therefore, high level fighters haven't become obsolete when compared to their magic using brethren, as is so often explicitly stated: "fighters don't get any powers/feats which scale with leveling." Bullcrap. With feats like Power Attack and with their BAB progression, ability, & weapon to-hit modifier increases , they do and should be feared.