Is power attack too powerful?

[DragonOfIntellect]

A target who is hit with critical from a Scythe is almost guaranteed death anyway, with or without Power Attack. That really does not show any imbalance in the feat. What I find interesting is that mathematically speaking, lower critical weapons with higher threat ranges actually deal more damage over time than the higher crit weapons, and have a much lower occurence of wasted damage.

But the weapons that always cause people to scream out "imbalance!" are the higher crit weapons, because of that one amazing hit that happens once in a great while.

 

[Deset Gled]

What I find interesting is that mathematically speaking, lower critical weapons with higher threat ranges actually deal more damage over time than the higher crit weapons, and have a much lower occurence of wasted damage.

Incorrect. On the statistical average, 19-20 x2 is exactly equal to 20 x3, 18-20 x2 is equal to 20 x4.

The "wasted damage" point has some truth to it, but the flip side is the "holy bejeezus, look how much damage I did with a single hit" phenomenon. It's a matter of personal prefference, really.

 

[DragonOfIntellect]

Actually, IIRC, a Greatsword does .3 or so more damage on average than a Greataxe. It's very minimal, but the 19-20 weapons will do more damage over the course of time, and the wasted damage calcuation brings that up much higher.

 

[Deset Gled]

A greatsword has a slightly higher average damage than a greataxe because it uses 2d6 (avg. 7) instead of 1d12 (avg 6.5). If you compare two weapons with the same damage die and different crit statistics, they are equal.

 

[DragonOfIntellect]

Actually, I still think the 19-20 weapons end up doing more average damage. It's quite small, only a few decimal points, but it is there. I seem to recall Longswords do more average damage than Battleaxes, for example.

 

[Deset Gled]

Average damage = ((average damage of die) * (number of ways to roll a hit without crit) + (average damage of die) * (crit multiplier) * (number of ways to roll to get a crit))/(number of ways to roll with hit, crit or no)

Longsword average damage:
(3.5 * 17 + 3.5 * 2 * 2)/19 = 3.8684

Battleaxe average damage:
(3.5 * 18 + 3.5 * 3 * 1)/19 = 3.8684

This necglects AC. AC won't come into play until you get into ranges where you can get a critical threat but still miss, at which point the average damage will start to favor the higher crit multiplier weapons.

It's probably getting to a point where if you feel the need to discuss the math further, we should open a separate thread for it.

 

[DragonOfIntellect]

No, it's alright. I know the math, but I remember a thread a while back with numerous calcuations all figured into the equation that showed 19-20 crit weapons doing the most damage. But, a lot of extraneous information was present, so it really depends on the campaign and the monsters you're fighting. Regardless, back to the main topic of the thread.

Power Attack really does not break anything. THF was already the most popular style in 3E, and will continue to be with or without 3.5 Power Attack, due to the advantages gained against the other two styles.

 

[Will]

What I seem to remember is that falchion turns out to have suck-ass damage, compared to the other weapons. Most of the other weapons are fairly balanced, all things considered.

(checks his math)

Falchion does average of 5.75, greatsword 7.7, greatclub 5.775, and greataxe 7.15.

With +4 strength mod:
10.35, 12.1, 9.975, and 11.55

Even an improved critical or keen falchion is still only up to average 6.5, which doesn't even match the other two-handed weapons.

AND the falchion is the most expensive two-handed weapon! But it's relatively light...

Edit: Doing a little math, a falchion ties a greatsword with a Str mod of... wait for it... +39! Wow.

Or only +19.5 comparing keen or improved critical versions.

Mmm.

 

[Gort]

Doesn't "all power attack, all the time" open you up to being disarmed/sundered rather a lot?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Doesn't "all power attack, all the time" open you up to being disarmed/sundered rather a lot?

If your Str is high enough, you may still hit often enough to not be ineffective, even against unconventional tactics. It is a viable strategy, but you are going to get more good AND bad runs of luck that way; some might say that is the point.