Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is Shillelagh essential?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6942641" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>Some of it has to do with my style expectations also. I like a bard with a longsword and a freehand for spellcasting. A lance (well, occasional usage is fine) or a greatsword just isn't my image (strongly informed by the 2e PHB) of a bard's armaments. So my Valor bard with 16 Strength and a longsword is only doing (2d8 + 6) = 15 damage. On the other hand, if he were 17th+ and wielding <em>greenflame blade</em>he's doing (4d8+3) = 21 to a primary target, plus the secondary damage. Before 17th level it's going to be (3d8+3) = 16.5, so if we assume the bard has a magic sword (probably reasonable in at 11th level, though that would mean that magic items kind of are assumed to an extent), he'll do better, but if he wields mundane steel, the cantrip is much better--and then after 17th level it better be a really good magic weapon or it won't keep up.</p><p></p><p>Clerics really illustrate this problem. A cleric with the cantrip bonus damage is putting out (3d8 + 5(probably) = 18.5 damage with <em>sacred flame</em> at 11th level, and (4d8 + 5) = 23 at 17th+. A War cleric with a greatsword and a 20 Strength is dealing (2d6 + 1d8 + 5)= 16.5 damage at 11th level, and (2d6 + 2d8 + 5) = 21 damage at 14th level plus. It's true that there are many more ways to add damage to a weapon attack with spells, items, etc, than there are to add damage to an attack cantrip, but it still demonstrates that you are expected to be using those--and in this case that's even when you have a maxed attack stat.</p><p></p><p>Another issue I have with some of it is just that I don't like the idea of maxed attack stats for certain characters. I just think in terms of a bard or cleric in 2e with a Strength of 13 being perfectly viable in melee. 5e isn't really designed that way. If you want something as your attack stat, you need to make it high. And (again, a style thing), since longswords are Strength-based that means way more muscles on certain characters than I really want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 6942641, member: 6677017"] Some of it has to do with my style expectations also. I like a bard with a longsword and a freehand for spellcasting. A lance (well, occasional usage is fine) or a greatsword just isn't my image (strongly informed by the 2e PHB) of a bard's armaments. So my Valor bard with 16 Strength and a longsword is only doing (2d8 + 6) = 15 damage. On the other hand, if he were 17th+ and wielding [I]greenflame blade[/I]he's doing (4d8+3) = 21 to a primary target, plus the secondary damage. Before 17th level it's going to be (3d8+3) = 16.5, so if we assume the bard has a magic sword (probably reasonable in at 11th level, though that would mean that magic items kind of are assumed to an extent), he'll do better, but if he wields mundane steel, the cantrip is much better--and then after 17th level it better be a really good magic weapon or it won't keep up. Clerics really illustrate this problem. A cleric with the cantrip bonus damage is putting out (3d8 + 5(probably) = 18.5 damage with [I]sacred flame[/I] at 11th level, and (4d8 + 5) = 23 at 17th+. A War cleric with a greatsword and a 20 Strength is dealing (2d6 + 1d8 + 5)= 16.5 damage at 11th level, and (2d6 + 2d8 + 5) = 21 damage at 14th level plus. It's true that there are many more ways to add damage to a weapon attack with spells, items, etc, than there are to add damage to an attack cantrip, but it still demonstrates that you are expected to be using those--and in this case that's even when you have a maxed attack stat. Another issue I have with some of it is just that I don't like the idea of maxed attack stats for certain characters. I just think in terms of a bard or cleric in 2e with a Strength of 13 being perfectly viable in melee. 5e isn't really designed that way. If you want something as your attack stat, you need to make it high. And (again, a style thing), since longswords are Strength-based that means way more muscles on certain characters than I really want. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is Shillelagh essential?
Top