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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vespucci" data-source="post: 5592695" data-attributes="member: 6675688">No.  That's not my position at all.  You've assumed that I'm talking about 3.X on a forum dedicated to discussing all pre-4e versions of D&D, in a thread tagged  "Game Theory and Design".  In addition, you've assumed that the Rogue is up for grabs, when the OP specifically mentions the three class option.Beyond that, even the structure of the argument is incorrect.  I'm asking why have the skilled guy, not proposing to make him redundant and then calling for his removal.His "profession" is adventurer.  The same is true for the fighting man and magic user.You need to take that up with the guy who said removing the skill guy (i.e. making everyone a skill guy) would lead to omnicompetent characters.Let me just do a quick find-and-replace routine on your argument.  (It's legitimate, as the class I replaced gets as few skill points as the one I'm introducing.) Because it's the player's fault if he expects his Fighter to be just as good in Spot as the Rogue is! It's not the game's fault if he spends all his skills in his class skills, so as to create the "master Fighter"! The player should know that the master fighter is very close to the "master soldier". By spending all skills in military related skills, means that character is so focused in what he does, that he is pretty useless outside the battlefield!  It means that the soldier has never left the battlefield! We cannot expect the soldier to be just as good as spotting the enemy at night, while hidden behind bushes and behind enemy lines...as a trained commando is! The commando has spend years in training so as to "know" what to look for... He's not good at it simply because he doesn't wear glasses! And now comes the argument: "But the fighter is just as an adventurer as the rogue is! He's not enclosed in some battlefield! He should be good too!" You don't say!!!!! The start spending skill points on ANOTHER skill than just jump!!!! It's up to you to create the fighter as realistically as you want!!! Don't expect the game to do that for you. And never expect to be as good as the rogue is in spot. That's what HE DOES MOST. What YOU DO MOST is that you spend time with your weapons so as to understand combat! If you feel like you should concentrate on spot, the LEAVE your weapons...and take another class in the next level...      If that looks absurd to you, it does to me, too.  But it's your position.Now, perhaps there' a compromise here.  We could have just magic-user (supernatural) and hero (normal times one hundred).  So the four man party is now James Bond, Moses, Odysseus, and Merlin.Is there something deeply wrong with that?</blockquote>

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