Is Slave Pits of the Undercity a well-designed adventure module?

[painandgreed]

I think Quasqueton is saying (and I agree) that a well-designed adventure would be more explicit about all these details.

My issue with it seems to be that there is ongoing action that is not addressed in the module. I could see how the basillisks perhaps wandered in a day or two ago and were walled up and keep breaking out. I'm not sure how often they break out but if the random enounter chart is every turn, and there is a 1 in 20 chance of it being a baskilisk, then they probably break out pretty often. Once every couple of hours assuming that the PCs are the only ones encoutnering wandering monsters in the complex. Then the PCs, should they even discover this fact after entering, should be able to retreat and let attrition take it's toll as orcs and basilisks (or ghouls) fight it out. These sort of cramped living quarters for monsters should end up in fairly quick resolutions if they are encountered on the wandering monster charts. If the wandering monsters are hostile to the non-wandering monsters there should be a chance for some conflict not related to the PCs. If the adventure takes a long time (I know I've been in parties that have retreated to heal and return later), then methods should be provided to resolve such issues. I do not think that modules design that assumes that everywhere the PCs are not is in time stop are well designed. If the orc guards in their sleeping quarters are alway awake and arguing, not matter when the PCs investigate the room, it violates some verssimilitude and is not good design. This might be all right if the module is on a set time table, but whether such constructs are good module design would be another issue.

 

[Storm Raven]

Emphasis mine to highlight. I see none of this information. Would you be so kind as to quote such?

The information concerning the recently built walls and the regular repairs is contained in the description of Room 2: "The east wall is different from the others. It shows signs of recent construction and upkeep as it is patched in several places."

This is further reinforced in the description of Room 10: "There are no visible doors to this area; in fact, openings that might have once been windows or collapses have been repaired and maintained. Now there is a wall that stands about 10' high."

So, the walls have been repaired, and need maintenance. Why do you think they need maintenance? Because of frequent earthquakes? Rampaging earth elementals? Or, perhaps, it is because of the basilisks.

The idea that monsters might set up an ambush for a party is so basic and obvious that I am surprised that one would think that they need the module to spell that out for them, especially since there is another combatant in the same encounter area who is doing exactly that.

The idea that the slavers might have some sort of system for getting around their own complex through their own defenses (which are pretty easy to bypass if you know how, all you need to do with the statue is throw a catch hidden in its left foot) also seems pretty basic. The module descibes how they bypass the harpies in Room 14, and how they have made a deal with the wight in Room 9, so the idea that they are smart enough to somehow not get caught in their own traps doesn't strike me as that odd. Do you really need the module to say "the slavers have a system of passwords to identify each other"? That much is already obvious from the structure of the module.

 

[Storm Raven]

This is the second time you've used this phrase. You are starting to rely on insults to argue. I have not insulted you. How about we discuss the module without the emotion?

It is the only phrase I can think of that is applicable when someone complains that a module is defective when it doesn't explain why a monster would try to ambush invading adventurers. Or that an organized band of slavers might be able to work together to move about their complex safely, while leaving a collection of traps and hindrances to foil both potential invaders and potential escapees.

 

[Quasqueton]

OK, when the level of snideness reaches this point, there is no reason to continue the discussion. When you have to use strawmen and redirection, you are just arguing.

I have read it thoroughly, run it twice, and built a campaign around its concept, and I still think it is a poorly designed adventure, for numerous reasons (including many that have not been mentioned in this thread).

Quasqueton

 

[Storm Raven]

OK, when the level of snideness reaches this point, there is no reason to continue the discussion. When you have to use strawmen and redirection, you are just arguing.

In other words, when confronted with the actual text of the module, you angrily stalk out.

 

[Quasqueton]

In other words, when confronted with the actual text of the module, you angrily stalk out.

I rest my case for the "just wanting to argue" charge.

Quasqueton

 

[Storm Raven]

My issue with it seems to be that there is ongoing action that is not addressed in the module. I could see how the basillisks perhaps wandered in a day or two ago and were walled up and keep breaking out. I'm not sure how often they break out but if the random enounter chart is every turn, and there is a 1 in 20 chance of it being a baskilisk, then they probably break out pretty often. Once every couple of hours assuming that the PCs are the only ones encoutnering wandering monsters in the complex. Then the PCs, should they even discover this fact after entering, should be able to retreat and let attrition take it's toll as orcs and basilisks (or ghouls) fight it out.

That might work for evil parties, but it is a good way to get a bunch of innocent slaves killed as well. If the basilisk (or ghouls) kill the orcs and their allies, they are likely going to much on the unarmed and helpless slaves in short order. The party, assuming it is good-aligned, is pretty much on a time table, delay will result in the death of the slaver's victims.

 

[Storm Raven]

I rest my case for the "just wanting to argue" charge.

You might have a case, if you attempted to address the substance of my post.

 

[painandgreed]

That might work for evil parties, but it is a good way to get a bunch of innocent slaves killed as well. If the basilisk (or ghouls) kill the orcs and their allies, they are likely going to much on the unarmed and helpless slaves in short order. The party, assuming it is good-aligned, is pretty much on a time table, delay will result in the death of the slaver's victims.

A well designed module will not assume the alignment of the party and would be usable for parties of all alignments.

 

[el-remmen]

<mod>
Can we stop the sniping, condension and insults?

Remember: If the only way you can think of expressing something is with a condescending expression, it is better to say nothing at all. . .

Thanks.

</mod>